Any news on gas engine CUTS?

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Gasoline today is the best it's ever been. Varnish and gum is unheard of today. No lead reduces engine deposites and wear.low sulphur reduces oil contamination and corrosion.

Those have been replaced with a new evil: ethanol.

Hey, you guys can go buy all the gasoline tractors you want. Knock yourselves out. You can even have my share. If someone comes out with a new gasoline tractor, I know one guy that won't be buying one.

 

[buickanddeere]

Deeremann. How can you compare a carburated gasser to a mechanical pump diesel ? For comparisons look at at mileage of a 1975 400 Chev 4x4 vs a 2104 Chev with the 5.3 DI. Compare the cost and reliability of a Cummins 6BT at 10 years and 200,000 miles . vs a 2014 Cummins in 2024 with 200,000 miles.
Btw check the fuel efficiency of the JD 620/630 and an Oliver iirc. They would be cheaper to run now ploughing a field than most diesels of the same era.
If diesel was such a hands down winner every small lawn mower, motor cycle, chain saw, garden tractor, ATV, outboard boat motor, inboard boat motors under 30ft and portable 6.5Kw generator would all be diesel. Light highway vehicles such as cars and pickups would all be diesel.
Are you aware of the definitions of light duty and heavy duty?

 

[DeereMann]

uh, Mr. B&D....I am a Mechanical Engineer with 30 years in the industry designing the things.

 

[dodge man]

A good comparison would be the 900cc engine in my Kubota BX. Its rated at 23 hp. I looked up a 900 cc engine in a Honda motorcycle, it was rated at 97 hp. No comparison right? Why not use gas? For one thing, take the motorcycle engine and run it near 100% power output, then run the diesel engine in my BX at 100% power. I don't have any numbers but I'm sure the diesel will outlast the motorcycle engine several times over.

One thing to keep in mind, say in a motorcycle design, weight is a huge factor. Same thing with cars, airplanes, chainsaws, weed eaters and many other items and that's why gas engines are used. They make more power for a given engine weight.

Now take a tractor. People add front weight, they load the tires, light weight isn't a factor. Say my BX needs to be 30 hp. Cheaper and easier just to bump up the displacement since a little extra weight isn't a bad thing. There is a reason over the road trucks, tractors, construction equipment all use diesel engines. In high load, high hour applications, they last longer and are more fuel efficient.

I saw a large Cat Challenger, this sucker must have had several thousand pounds of iron hanging off it to bump up the weight. I'm sure you could design a gas engine to power the thing, it would be much lighter also but what would you gain?

Now in SCUTS and CUTS, might gas engines make them cheaper and be just as good? I can't say.

 

[ME83]

This is why I asked the question about CUTS, most of the SCUTS and CUTS out there are owned by homeowners. Most homeowners only put 100-200hrs a year on a tractor and half those hours are probably spent lugging around and not at pto speeds. Besides, a lot of those old gas engine tractors lasted for many hours. My Ford had over 4000 hrs and still ran strong with very little oil consumption, not bad for being over 40 years old!

Gas engines don't have to be light, that is just how they are built these days to save money. You can still build them with a heavy walled cast iron block, but I would rather put extra weight where it is needed. I find the front tires on my 110 TLB are always the first ones to sink in the mud and rut things up, little less weight in the front would not be a bad thing. Most CUTS have a loader on the front, just scoop a bucket of dirt if you are pulling something that heavy to make the front end light. 1000 lbs in the bucket is three to four times better than 500 lbs on an engine as far as weight transfer goes.

Gas engines have been proven to work, gas is better these days than years ago, and diesels have become much more complicated and expensive. This is why I asked if there has been any news on new tractors coming out with gas engines, it seems like a logical option that will benefit many potential buyers.

 

[MossRoad]

The thing I would miss most going to gas is the diesel compression braking in my hilly woodlot. I rarely use the brakes even on steep hills. A gas rig just doesn't hold you back that way.
Jim

If its a hydrostatic transmission it doesn't make a difference at all.

 

[MossRoad]

Here's a valid comparison of a late 70's International 2500b tractor loader with either a gas or diesel engine, gear or hydro tranny. The diesel engine was 20% larger displacement than the gas engine, but made only 1 more HP at the PTO with a gear tranny. Surprisingly, both gas and diesel models made significantly more PTO HP with hydro transmissions than gear transmissions... the diesel making 13 more PTO HP and the gas making 8 more HP.

My 2500b had well over 4000 hours on it, a gas engine, hydro tranny and could probably knock a house over at 30 years old. It had plenty of power. The hydro transmission supplied exceptional braking and the only time I actually used the brakes was for holding position on hills, or turning sharply.

As for fuel economy, the operator's manual said to run it at PTO speed pretty much all the time to get the best performance out of the hydro transmission, regardless of if it was a diesel or gas engine. So a diesel or gas powered unit with a hydro tranny would, by nature, get significantly less fuel economy VS a gear tranny'd unit of the same make and model. Mine burned about 2-3 gallons per hour, as I recall.

Any engines turning hydro transmissions are just big pump motors. Both will perform well in that nature as long as they are rated to supply the needed HP and torque. When you use gear trannies, its a completely different animal.

Diesel Engine Detail:
International Harvester D-239
diesel
4-cylinder
liquid-cooled
239 ci [3.9 L]
Power: 67 hp [50.0 kW] (gear)
80 hp [59.7 kW] (hydro)
Compression: 16:1
Rated RPM: 2200 (gear)
2400 (hydro)
Oil capacity: 10 qts [9.5 L]
Coolant capacity: 14 qts [13.2 L]

Gas Engine Detail:
International Harvester C-200
gasoline
4-cylinder
liquid-cooled
200 ci [3.3 L]
Power: 66 hp [49.2 kW] (gear)
74 hp [55.2 kW] (hydro)
Compression: 7.3:1
Rated RPM: 2200 (gear)
2400 (hydro)
Oil capacity: 7 qts [6.6 L]
Coolant capacity: 12 qts [11.4 L]

 

[paulfun9]

Gasoline today is the best it's ever been. Varnish and gum is unheard of today. No lead reduces engine deposites and wear.low sulphur reduces oil contamination and corrosion.

Tell that to the people who have been paying me to clean out their carbs after they sit for a few months!

 

[TomSeller]

Fundamentally I thank that diesel is the way to on tractors since they start and run better given upkeep of the fuel system. My gas engines (excluding cars) mostly consist of roto tillers, pumps, lawnmowers, chainsaws, etc. I do, however, have one air cooled diesel. A Yanmar 6 HP diesel generator. I have to tell you that that Yanmar diesel starts on the first pull EVERY time. The gas engines start anywhere from 1 pull to 6 pulls, and occasionally need tinkering. Diesel is more reliable than gas, but if used on a tractor every day, I would not dismiss a gas engine.

 

[arlen4720]

The thing I would miss most going to gas is the diesel compression braking in my hilly woodlot. I rarely use the brakes even on steep hills. A gas rig just doesn't hold you back that way.
Jim

I don't agree with that. Unless you have a jake brake on your tractor... diesels don't engine brake as well as a gas engine because diesels don't have a throttle plate.