New Member - SA424, LX2610SU, or L2501

[nknelsen]

Hello all, long time lurker, first time posting.

The CFO has given me the green light to purchase a tractor in the next couple of months and I have narrowed down my choices between two Japanese manufacturers. I am not considering any of the South Korean brand names due to my affinity for Japanese products/quality and I realize this limits my options. I am also shying away from Deere since I can't stomach the "green premium".

We currently have a smaller property that needs a lot of work with future plans of purchasing 5-20 acres to build our retirement home on. I am still relatively young, so that will be some time in the future. Our current property is a hilly 1 acre lot 80% lawn and 20% wooded.

The type of work I'm looking to do with this machine:
Break ground and move a lot of heavy clay to prepare for concrete slabs, run a tiller for a small garden, pull deck/patio posts, install posts for new deck/patio/privacy fence, material moving, cleaning up felled trees/brush in our wooded area, putting in retaining wall (once I get a BH), planting trees, pulling a box blade at my in-laws to maintain a 400ft gravel driveway, and helping out at other friends' family properties. I have no interest in mowing and do not want this thing anywhere near my leach field/septic tank - I have a dedicated ZTR for mowing so the mid-PTO is not a concern.

I realize my property is a little small for the L2501 and probably the LX2610, but I want something that doesn't leave me wanting for more during a specific job. The soil here sucks and most of it is very dense clay, I'm afraid a big SCUT might have a tough time digging/grading this stuff. I read on here to buy the most tractor you can afford, so I'm keeping my spend at or below $25k mark to remain conservative and allow for a dump trailer and backhoe purchase in the future without breaking the bank too much.

I really like the LA525 loader on the standard L vs the LA535 on the LX... It's interesting that the SA424 loader supposedly has the same lifting capacity.

As far as dealer networks go, there's a Kubota dealer pretty much everywhere I look and only two Yanmars within 80 miles. I do a lot of my own maintenance so I'm only interested in the dealer network for warranty repairs and/or replacement parts.

Should I go big or go home with the L2501/LX2610SU Or keep things slow and practical with the SA424 SCUT?

I'm not trying to say anything bad about Kubota or Yanmar, but I would encourage you to look at a Kioti CX2510 CUT. In my area these Kiotis are about 3 to 4 thousand cheaper then Kubota and 15000 cheaper then John Deere. For full disclosure I have had trouble with Kubota and removed them from contention when I purchased my CX2510 late last year.

I believe the Kubota still has the cast aluminum rear axle assembly instead of the usual cast iron on most brands. I worked for a company in Canada that had a sidewalk snowplow contract a few years ago. Dealer made a mistake and ordered our 20 brand new Kubota 30/30 tractors with the "Wide" wheel kit instead of the narrow wheel kit. Dealer placed another order for the correct wheels and asked us to use the tractors until the new narrow wheels arrived.

This led to much more sod damage and springtime repair but that was the least of our problems.

On 2 separate snow events within the same week I had 2 of these new tractors suffer catastrophic rear axle failures on 2 separate routes with 2 separate operators. Both incidents where virtually identical.

When passing a firehydrant while plowing the left wheel brushed up against the 1" "nut" on the sidewalk facing cap. The leading edge of the wheel was able to withstand the rub but when the nut contacted the rim on the other side of the rim the entire rear axle broke, disabling the tractor and dumping all of the hydraulic oil on the sidewalk. You could see the impact of the nut on the rim if you looked very closely as it barely damaged the paint.

I came to 2 conclusions after these 2 incidents. I didn't ever want to buy a tractor with an aluminum rear axle and 2 an aluminum rear axle wouldn't provide much in the way of weight on the rear of the tractor. Since most tractor applications benefit from increased weight, this aluminum axle would provide no benefit to the tractor or the use of the tractor.

This also caused a much bigger problem for Me since neither the dealer or Kubota wanted to repair these 2 tractors under warranty since it was due to a collision on our part. In my opinion this collision and subsequent damage wouldn't have happened if 1. The proper wheel had been installed before delivery and 2. The rear axle had been Cast Iron.

The dealer eventually agreed to repair 1 free of charge and the other at a substantially reduced rate.

Maybe this issue will never be an issue for someone buying a SCUT or CUT and maybe you'll get years and years of trouble free service from a Machine with an aluminum axle.

But I certainly won't risk it and I truly believe that Kioti is a better unit then Kubota and comparable to a green tractor. I wouldn't buy a green tractor for the simple reason of their proprietary FEL quick attach system which excludes the much more common bobcat quick attach system. And the price of a green tractor is also significantly higher.

Sorry for rambling.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

Hello all, long time lurker, first time posting.

The CFO has given me the green light to purchase a tractor in the next couple of months and I have narrowed down my choices between two Japanese manufacturers. I am not considering any of the South Korean brand names due to my affinity for Japanese products/quality and I realize this limits my options. I am also shying away from Deere since I can't stomach the "green premium".

We currently have a smaller property that needs a lot of work with future plans of purchasing 5-20 acres to build our retirement home on. I am still relatively young, so that will be some time in the future. Our current property is a hilly 1 acre lot 80% lawn and 20% wooded.

The type of work I'm looking to do with this machine:
Break ground and move a lot of heavy clay to prepare for concrete slabs, run a tiller for a small garden, pull deck/patio posts, install posts for new deck/patio/privacy fence, material moving, cleaning up felled trees/brush in our wooded area, putting in retaining wall (once I get a BH), planting trees, pulling a box blade at my in-laws to maintain a 400ft gravel driveway, and helping out at other friends' family properties. I have no interest in mowing and do not want this thing anywhere near my leach field/septic tank - I have a dedicated ZTR for mowing so the mid-PTO is not a concern.

I realize my property is a little small for the L2501 and probably the LX2610, but I want something that doesn't leave me wanting for more during a specific job. The soil here sucks and most of it is very dense clay, I'm afraid a big SCUT might have a tough time digging/grading this stuff. I read on here to buy the most tractor you can afford, so I'm keeping my spend at or below $25k mark to remain conservative and allow for a dump trailer and backhoe purchase in the future without breaking the bank too much.

I really like the LA525 loader on the standard L vs the LA535 on the LX... It's interesting that the SA424 loader supposedly has the same lifting capacity.

As far as dealer networks go, there's a Kubota dealer pretty much everywhere I look and only two Yanmars within 80 miles. I do a lot of my own maintenance so I'm only interested in the dealer network for warranty repairs and/or replacement parts.

Should I go big or go home with the L2501/LX2610SU Or keep things slow and practical with the SA424 SCUT?

It sounds like you're actually talking about a CUT and not a SCUT. This is a good place to see the difference is at www.tractor.com/features/scut-vs-cut-1722/ At the risk of starting a off topic discussion I'd say a quick distinction is, if it can have a belly mower it's a SCUT.

Yanmar actually calls the SA424 a "Compact Tractor".

The advice about renting a backhoe is good advice. Adding a backhoe to an existing CUT is impractical/expensive unless you buy it that way. CUT's need to be to have their frames reinforced for the backhoe or you run the risk of breaking your tractor in half. Adding an aftermarket backhoe can void a warranty for this reason. Waiting too long can find OEM options no longer available and thus difficult if not impossible to find.

If I find myself in need of a backhoe to the point that renting starts to exceed purchasing, I might think about getting an older dedicated tractor without a FEL rather than adding one to my Massey.

Remember, no one ever said, "I wish I'd bought a smaller tractor!".

 

[Williy]

Rdas have you had a chance to check out an LS tractor??

LS Difference - LS Tractor USA

The LS difference doesn’t start with us. It starts with you. It starts with knowing what really matters to our customers.

lstractorusa.com

Nice warranty and I believe that you get more for you money

The best thing for you to do is test drive all the different tractors
so you can get a feel of what you want and which tractor is easy
for you to operate and fit your needs.

willy

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

You might want to check out the S. Korean tractors, including LS like Williy said. Lots of bang for the buck. Yes, you CAN get a mid mower on a CUT. Some manufacturers don't offer it however. You mentioned having a ZT for mowing, so I wouldn't use availability of a MMM as a buying factor. Too easy to get a rear mower for cheaper cost.

My advice on getting a BH..... if you feel you would need one and have work for it, get it when you get the tractor---- they are almost half of what they cost to add it later.... that is across all brands.

The BH on my first SCUT was purchased with the tractor for just over $4K, after the sale would have cost over $8K. On my CUT (albeit a 25hp tractor) the BH cost $6K, afterwards would be close to $10 K. I have used the BH for way more than I thought.... from digging holes for planting trees, to digging up broken waterlines, to lifting engines out of a vehicle. The list of usefulness goes on and on....

We are 45 minutes each way from the closest rental place (which is also the most expensive). If, and I emphasize the "if", they have one available, I spend half the day just getting it.... then if the work is an 'emergency' (like a waterline break).... then it takes that much longer. Owning the BH, I just get it out of the garage and dig! I dug up the line and had it repaired by the time I would just be getting back.

The tractors made by Branson, Kioti, LS, Yanmar..... all well made, all capable tractors, all good 'bang for the buck'. They all make SCUTs and CUTs in the size you are looking at. I can say for sure that my 25hp CUT is a far more capable tractor than my 25hp SCUT. They each have pros and cons.

Do your homework, look at specs (make a spreadsheet for comparison), go sit / drive different sizes, see what fits YOU.

 

[Radas]

I'm not trying to say anything bad about Kubota or Yanmar, but I would encourage you to look at a Kioti CX2510 CUT. In my area these Kiotis are about 3 to 4 thousand cheaper then Kubota and 15000 cheaper then John Deere. For full disclosure I have had trouble with Kubota and removed them from contention when I purchased my CX2510 late last year.

I believe the Kubota still has the cast aluminum rear axle assembly instead of the usual cast iron on most brands. I worked for a company in Canada that had a sidewalk snowplow contract a few years ago. Dealer made a mistake and ordered our 20 brand new Kubota 30/30 tractors with the "Wide" wheel kit instead of the narrow wheel kit. Dealer placed another order for the correct wheels and asked us to use the tractors until the new narrow wheels arrived.

This led to much more sod damage and springtime repair but that was the least of our problems.

On 2 separate snow events within the same week I had 2 of these new tractors suffer catastrophic rear axle failures on 2 separate routes with 2 separate operators. Both incidents where virtually identical.

When passing a firehydrant while plowing the left wheel brushed up against the 1" "nut" on the sidewalk facing cap. The leading edge of the wheel was able to withstand the rub but when the nut contacted the rim on the other side of the rim the entire rear axle broke, disabling the tractor and dumping all of the hydraulic oil on the sidewalk. You could see the impact of the nut on the rim if you looked very closely as it barely damaged the paint.

I came to 2 conclusions after these 2 incidents. I didn't ever want to buy a tractor with an aluminum rear axle and 2 an aluminum rear axle wouldn't provide much in the way of weight on the rear of the tractor. Since most tractor applications benefit from increased weight, this aluminum axle would provide no benefit to the tractor or the use of the tractor.

This also caused a much bigger problem for Me since neither the dealer or Kubota wanted to repair these 2 tractors under warranty since it was due to a collision on our part. In my opinion this collision and subsequent damage wouldn't have happened if 1. The proper wheel had been installed before delivery and 2. The rear axle had been Cast Iron.

The dealer eventually agreed to repair 1 free of charge and the other at a substantially reduced rate.

Maybe this issue will never be an issue for someone buying a SCUT or CUT and maybe you'll get years and years of trouble free service from a Machine with an aluminum axle.

But I certainly won't risk it and I truly believe that Kioti is a better unit then Kubota and comparable to a green tractor. I wouldn't buy a green tractor for the simple reason of their proprietary FEL quick attach system which excludes the much more common bobcat quick attach system. And the price of a green tractor is also significantly higher.

Sorry for rambling.

No worries, I appreciate the insight. I am impressed with the specs on the Kioti and might check them out. The CK2510 on paper outclasses the L2501 and is roughly $4k cheaper. I'll have to check with Kubota on the cast iron vs. Aluminum rear axle on the L2501/2502 - I'm assuming the LX2610 has an aluminum rear axle since it's significantly lighter than the L2501. IMHO, aluminum doesn't belong on a heavy tractor axle.

It sounds like you're actually talking about a CUT and not a SCUT. This is a good place to see the difference is at www.tractor.com/features/scut-vs-cut-1722/ At the risk of starting a off topic discussion I'd say a quick distinction is, if it can have a belly mower it's a SCUT.

Yanmar actually calls the SA424 a "Compact Tractor".

The advice about renting a backhoe is good advice. Adding a backhoe to an existing CUT is impractical/expensive unless you buy it that way. CUT's need to be to have their frames reinforced for the backhoe or you run the risk of breaking your tractor in half. Adding an aftermarket backhoe can void a warranty for this reason. Waiting too long can find OEM options no longer available and thus difficult if not impossible to find.

If I find myself in need of a backhoe to the point that renting starts to exceed purchasing, I might think about getting an older dedicated tractor without a FEL rather than adding one to my Massey.

Remember, no one ever said, "I wish I'd bought a smaller tractor!".

Yeah, Yanmar is tricky, they advertise it as a CUT but the specs (esp. the limited cat 1 and overall size scream SCUT). The weight/size is similar to the MF1725 from what I've read. I agree with you on the tractor size, better have and not need than need and not have.

Rdas have you had a chance to check out an LS tractor??

LS Difference - LS Tractor USA

The LS difference doesn’t start with us. It starts with you. It starts with knowing what really matters to our customers.

lstractorusa.com

Nice warranty and I believe that you get more for you money

The best thing for you to do is test drive all the different tractors
so you can get a feel of what you want and which tractor is easy
for you to operate and fit your needs.

willy

I have seen the LS Willy, both of the 25hp variants seem OK but not spec'd as well as their Japanese counterparts (or Kioti/Bobcat).

You might want to check out the S. Korean tractors, including LS like Williy said. Lots of bang for the buck. Yes, you CAN get a mid mower on a CUT. Some manufacturers don't offer it however. You mentioned having a ZT for mowing, so I wouldn't use availability of a MMM as a buying factor. Too easy to get a rear mower for cheaper cost.

My advice on getting a BH..... if you feel you would need one and have work for it, get it when you get the tractor---- they are almost half of what they cost to add it later.... that is across all brands.

The BH on my first SCUT was purchased with the tractor for just over $4K, after the sale would have cost over $8K. On my CUT (albeit a 25hp tractor) the BH cost $6K, afterwards would be close to $10 K. I have used the BH for way more than I thought.... from digging holes for planting trees, to digging up broken waterlines, to lifting engines out of a vehicle. The list of usefulness goes on and on....

We are 45 minutes each way from the closest rental place (which is also the most expensive). If, and I emphasize the "if", they have one available, I spend half the day just getting it.... then if the work is an 'emergency' (like a waterline break).... then it takes that much longer. Owning the BH, I just get it out of the garage and dig! I dug up the line and had it repaired by the time I would just be getting back.

The tractors made by Branson, Kioti, LS, Yanmar..... all well made, all capable tractors, all good 'bang for the buck'. They all make SCUTs and CUTs in the size you are looking at. I can say for sure that my 25hp CUT is a far more capable tractor than my 25hp SCUT. They each have pros and cons.

Do your homework, look at specs (makey a spreadsheet for comparison), go sit / drive different sizes, see what fits YOU.

Appreciate it, yeah I'll always own a ZTR - there's no better way to finish mow imo. Once we expand our property ownership, I'll consider a rear mower, they seem very capable for not a whole lot of money. This is where the rear PTO hp comes into play, I want to make sure anything I get has at least 20hp for the rear PTO so I can have some options in the future.

I am a huge Yanmar fan - I wish I had the coin for their YT235 fully optioned out... Not a whole lot of local dealer support (about 3 in 80 miles). We have only one LS dealer nearby (poor reviews) and no Branson. There's a Bobcat or two nearby as well but did not respond to my inquiry. So far I've had 2/3 of the Yanmar, 4/5 of the Kubota, and 0/2 of the Bobcat (Kioti) return my inquiry.

You make a good point regarding equipment availability. This is one reason I'm on the fence regarding the BH. If the price difference is that drastic buying after the fact, I may have to consider adding one on in advance.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

I'd say a quick distinction is, if it can have a belly mower it's a SCUT.

Who would have thought that a New Holland Boomer 50 was a SCUT. LOL That's the problem with generalizations, they all fall apart at some point.

 

[Radas]

Who would have thought that a New Holland Boomer 50 was a SCUT. LOL That's the problem with generalizations, they all fall apart at some point.

I think maybe the limited cat 1 is a better generalization for SCUTs. I've see belly mowers on compact Tractors I thought were way too heavy to mow a lawn with.

 

[nknelsen]

No worries, I appreciate the insight. I am impressed with the specs on the Kioti and might check them out. The CK2510 on paper outclasses the L2501 and is roughly $4k cheaper. I'll have to check with Kubota on the cast iron vs. Aluminum rear axle on the L2501/2502 - I'm assuming the LX2610 has an aluminum rear axle since it's significantly lighter than the L2501. IMHO, aluminum doesn't belong on a heavy tractor axle.

Yeah, Yanmar is tricky, they advertise it as a CUT but the specs (esp. the limited cat 1 and overall size scream SCUT). The weight/size is similar to the MF1725 from what I've read. I agree with you on the tractor size, better have and not need than need and not have.

I have seen the LS Willy, both of the 25hp variants seem OK but not spec'd as well as their Japanese counterparts (or Kioti/Bobcat).

Appreciate it, yeah I'll always own a ZTR - there's no better way to finish mow imo. Once we expand our property ownership, I'll consider a rear mower, they seem very capable for not a whole lot of money. This is where the rear PTO hp comes into play, I want to make sure anything I get has at least 20hp for the rear PTO so I can have some options in the future.

I am a huge Yanmar fan - I wish I had the coin for their YT235 fully optioned out... Not a whole lot of local dealer support (about 3 in 80 miles). We have only one LS dealer nearby (poor reviews) and no Branson. There's a Bobcat or two nearby as well but did not respond to my inquiry. So far I've had 2/3 of the Yanmar, 4/5 of the Kubota, and 0/2 of the Bobcat (Kioti) return my inquiry.

You make a good point regarding equipment availability. This is one reason I'm on the fence regarding the BH. If the price difference is that drastic buying after the fact, I may have to consider adding one on in advance.

I love Kioti. And I've had very good experience with them. I had a CS2410 SCUT for 7 years and have just upgraded to a CX2510 CUT. Both with loader and MMM.

But I do know that Kioti, at least here in Canada, has the very worst Dealers. Not sure what Kubota or Deere are like to deal with, But my Ford dealer is like part of my family. I contacted 5 separate dealers before I bought my new tractor. I think im a patient and understanding Customer and I don't have issues buying anything else commercial or personal. But I have yet to meet a decent stand up Kioti Dealer.

I wish I had some money to invest, I'd really consider opening up a good one.

Tag line would be "Let's all be honest, not try to screw each other, consider a handshake deal as gospel and come in for a coffee".

Maybe I'm stupid but it seems like honesty and honor are in short supply.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

I think maybe the limited cat 1 is a better generalization for SCUTs. I've see belly mowers on compact Tractors I thought were way too heavy to mow a lawn with.

When we bought the tractor I thought an MMM was a ridiculous option for 45-55 hp. tractors weighing 2 tons bare, but they are offered.

 

[JediCropFarmer]

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Sufficient tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

thank you