15% ethanol!?!?

[Diamondpilot]

Here in Indiana all fuel has 10% or more by law starting Jan 1st. The only exception is aviation and marine fuels. Its sucks. Diesel all has 5% bio crap in it also. You guys who can still get the good stuff are lucky.

Chris

 

[Duffster]

I had just got my Sthil 029 Farmboss back from the dealer. They said the reason I could not get it to run was because the fuel pickup was full of "gelled ethanol type gunk". He said the good ol' government was trying to raise the ethanol content to 15%. He has seen this type of increase of the gell around the pickups in the last 8 months and he sees no end in sight.
If the government increases the ethanol content, what is this going to do to cars and trucks, lawn equipment that are not ethanol rated?? I hope there is an additive someone will come out with to help deal with this atrocity.

Ethanol has been around for a long time. Why would the mechanic just now see "this type of increase of the gell around the pickups in the last 8 months and he sees no end in sight"?

There is a lot of misinformation about ethanol floating around and some of it is 20 years old. I think mechanics are the majority of the culprits.

 

[Wacky]

Ethanol has been around for a long time. Why would the mechanic just now see "this type of increase of the gell around the pickups in the last 8 months and he sees no end in sight"?

There is a lot of misinformation about ethanol floating around and some of it is 20 years old. I think mechanics are the majority of the culprits.[/QUOTE

Could be. Maybe they just recently changed all the other additives in the fuel also, don't know but I am not liking what I am hearing.

 

[crazyal]

Ethanol has been around for a long time. Why would the mechanic just now see "this type of increase of the gell around the pickups in the last 8 months and he sees no end in sight"?

There is a lot of misinformation about ethanol floating around and some of it is 20 years old. I think mechanics are the majority of the culprits.

That's an Ethanol talking point that's not quite true. Ethanol may have been around for a long time but it wasn't widely used as an oxygen additive for gas, MTBE was. So most people were not using it in every piece of equipment they own unlike now. How many small engine dealers understood the problems Ethanol was causing until it was mandated?

 

[Duffster]

That's an Ethanol talking point that's not quite true.

What's not true?

Ethanol has been widely used around here for 20+ years and been mandated in at least some form for as long as I can remember.

As far as talking points go, many anti ethanol talking points have already been posted in this thread.

 

[Duffster]

Could be. Maybe they just recently changed all the other additives in the fuel also, don't know but I am not liking what I am hearing.

That could be. The mechanic at my Stihl dealer says that he sees no difference between the guys that use E10 and the guys that use neat gas. All have problems to a certain degree. He claims the quality of the gasoline is crap period.

 

[gauthier]

I don't think the ethanol thing causing problems is a myth.
My brand new snapper fuel system clogged up with that clear goo after about 20 hours of use last year,my saws and trimmers have had more trouble past year or so than ever,

Last year,the go mart which was the only place around me that sold non ethinated gas put up a sticker saying up to 10 percent ethinal,some pumps say 10 percent,go mart says up to,so it appears from that it could have very little or over 10 percent if they didn't measure right.

Think I'm going to buy some of that marine stable,people say it works,,wonder if there are any draw backs to using it?

Somebody told me that even though the newer motors on lawnmowers and such, fuel lines and stuff were ok and ethinal safe,things like fuel filters desolve to a certain degree and things like that where these motor manufactors,get from supplyers lord knows where,[where ethinal is not used],might be the problem???

 

[Wacky]

That could be. The mechanic at my Stihl dealer says that he sees no difference between the guys that use E10 and the guys that use neat gas. All have problems to a certain degree. He claims the quality of the gasoline is crap period.

Agreed. All I know is that all my gas powered equipment that is well over 5 yrs old have all had an increase of fuel related problems. The future is not looking good if they keep reformulating the fuel. Since all the fuel is crap now...what is the next 5yrs going to bring!!

 

[crazyal]

Duffster you are free to believe what you want. But when small engine repair shops start reporting that they are seeing problems at a rate about 8x of what they had seen in the past in the last year it's not hard to point to the problem.

Talking point (from the National Corn Growers Asst):
Myth: Ethanol blends can't be used in small engines.
FACT: E-10 Unleaded is perfectly acceptable in lawn mowers, snowmobiles, ATVs and other small engines that run on ordinary unleaded gasoline. Virtually every small engine manufacturer, including Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Toro/Lawnboy, Kohler and Snapper, approves the use of E-10 Unleaded in its equipment.

Fact (from Briggs & Stratton):
B&S allows the use of oxygenate blended gasoline where the oxygenate content is up to 10% ethanol (gasohol) or up to 15% MTBE (Methyl tertiary butyl ether) by volume. However, ethanol blended gasoline can attract moisture which leads to separation and formation of acids during storage. Acidic gasoline can damage the fuel system of an engine while in storage. B&S strongly recommends removing ethanol-blended fuels from engine during storage.
Use of gasoline containing higher than the EPA approved limits, for volume percentage of ethanol more than 10%, or MTBE more than 15%, may cause engine damage and will void engine warranty.

Remember the B&S information is for engines they sell today. Unlike a car small engines have breathable gas caps and as they heat and cool moist air can easily mix with the gas.

If you have a report from an unbiased source proving otherwise I would like to read it. The closest thing I could find is a report from Oklahoma State U that the problems seen with the use of Ethanol in small engines could be due to the fact that it's a solvent and is cleaning deposits from the carb at a fast rate and that's what's causing the problem. That wouldn't account for the snot like goo being found (that sounds like the Ethanol is combining with water to me).

I will say this. As the price of oil gets higher refineries are trying to get as much gas and Diesel out of each barrel (and less of lower priced things like tar for roads). As they do the process which they use has also changed over the last few years. So it's possible that these new processes are also having an adverse effect. I haven't read anything to prove this but I'm not sure if anyone has ever looked into it.

 

[Wacky]

Duffster you are free to believe what you want. But when small engine repair shops start reporting that they are seeing problems at a rate about 8x of what they had seen in the past in the last year it's not hard to point to the problem.

Talking point (from the National Corn Growers Asst):
Myth: Ethanol blends can't be used in small engines.
FACT: E-10 Unleaded is perfectly acceptable in lawn mowers, snowmobiles, ATVs and other small engines that run on ordinary unleaded gasoline. Virtually every small engine manufacturer, including Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Toro/Lawnboy, Kohler and Snapper, approves the use of E-10 Unleaded in its equipment.

Fact (from Briggs & Stratton):
B&S allows the use of oxygenate blended gasoline where the oxygenate content is up to 10% ethanol (gasohol) or up to 15% MTBE (Methyl tertiary butyl ether) by volume. However, ethanol blended gasoline can attract moisture which leads to separation and formation of acids during storage. Acidic gasoline can damage the fuel system of an engine while in storage. B&S strongly recommends removing ethanol-blended fuels from engine during storage.
Use of gasoline containing higher than the EPA approved limits, for volume percentage of ethanol more than 10%, or MTBE more than 15%, may cause engine damage and will void engine warranty.

Remember the B&S information is for engines they sell today. Unlike a car small engines have breathable gas caps and as they heat and cool moist air can easily mix with the gas.

If you have a report from an unbiased source proving otherwise I would like to read it. The closest thing I could find is a report from Oklahoma State U that the problems seen with the use of Ethanol in small engines could be due to the fact that it's a solvent and is cleaning deposits from the carb at a fast rate and that's what's causing the problem. That wouldn't account for the snot like goo being found (that sounds like the Ethanol is combining with water to me).

I will say this. As the price of oil gets higher refineries are trying to get as much gas and Diesel out of each barrel (and less of lower priced things like tar for roads). As they do the process which they use has also changed over the last few years. So it's possible that these new processes are also having an adverse effect. I haven't read anything to prove this but I'm not sure if anyone has ever looked into it.

Good read:thumbsup:! Very informing.