2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix?

[Billc]

MarkV, I spent some time working for Home Depot and did a lot of work on the Echo products. Each Spring we had a big gathering of the Inside Gardening folks who worked in the stores in the Atlanta area. The best treat was listening to a man we called the Echo Nazi. I can't remember his name, but he worked for Echo and was from East Germany. This man was GREAT to listen to. He loved his product. He thought the Echo 2 cycle engine was better than a Stihl or Husky. Anyway, he was also a big believe in Echo oil. It mixes at 50:1 and he said it could be used in any 2 cycle engine. He said there were only 2 good 2 cycle engine oils on the market in the U.S., the oil put out by Echo or the oil put out my Husky. He said these two oils met all sorts of standards. He said most of the other 2 cycle oils were nothing more than boat engine oils. Their ratings were based on a water cooled 2 cycle engine turning 4000 rpms at best. The Echo and Husky oils were made to run in air cooled engines at 10,000 rpms. Big difference in how they lubricate.

He also said to never let an air cooled engine idle for more than 10 seconds, there is a tremendous heat build up. It works best at full throttle, it runs much cooler at full throttle.

I have a Stihl 036 chain saw and 4 echo products (line trimmer, hedger, edger, and blower). Have never had a problem with any of them and they get used a ton.

Oh, Briggs and Straton makes a gas preservative product that will keep your gas good for 6 months. Other wise gas starts going bad after about 40 days, it turns into something similar to varnish. During the summer I don't use it, I go though the gas too fast, but heading into winter I add the preservative to the gas so it won't go bad.

Last thing, if anyone is looking for great deals on Echo products here is how to get them...and other stuff too: Home Depot has a very generous return policy. In most cases Home Depot ships the returned merchandise back to the manufacture. This in NOT the case with Echo products. Home Depot will resell the Echo returns at a big discount (about 50% if you catch them with a lot of returns on the shelf). They are not really interested in making money on the returns, rather they just want the returns out of the store! Plus the returns come with a 1 year warranty.

Can't tell you how many Echo returns I was made to take back by my bosses when there was nothing wrong with the product. Either the Echo product had been flooded (most common) or someone had bought it to use for one job and then returned it saying there was something wrong with it. Anyway, in either case one can buy a slightly used or not used at all Echo for about 50 cents on the dollar. A very good deal for a great product.

If you are now using a Weedeater, or Mac, or Ryobi, etc. try an Echo and you won't believe the difference.

And try using either Echo or Husky 2 cycle oil.

 

[MarkV]

BillC-Interesting advice. I just bought an Echo trimmer and that is why I started this post. The Echo used a 50:1 mix and that was a new can for me. I sure will look into Echo returns at Home Depot. So far the Echo trimmer has been great.

Anyone know about grading standards for 2 stroke oil?

 

[W5FL]

Fortunately, I grew up poor. Othewise you would think that there is a real reason for all the product proliferation that goes on.

I didn't know that anyone used anything except 30W engine oil mixed with gas for two cycle engines until a whole lot later in life. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Billc]

MarkV, I can't remember what the ratings are. I know echo has them on the back of their oil. I do remember the Echo Nazi (please know we called him this out of total respect! When he got to talkin' about his product, with his thick German accent and passion, well to say he was a great speaker was an understatement. There was no bs to the man.) made the point of two types of 2-cycle engines. The first were basically boat engines. They had a top rpm of 4000 and were water cooled. For years that type of 2-cycle engine oil was used in everything. To prevent engine failures through better lubrication Echo and several other companies had the new 2-cycle oil formulated. Echo engines are made to very tight standards and still use 2 sets of ball bearings on the cam shaft. That's how they do 10,000 rpms. Something like a Ryobi (and most other 2 cycle engins) uses sleeve bearings and at best can do 8,000 rpms. Anyway the new rating is for air cooled, high rpm, 2-cycle engines. The rating was first used in Germany and Japan.

This is probably more than anyone ever wanted to know.

 

[RobertN]

I get into this discussion at work... Here's my insight...

A few years back I rode dirtbikes. The gentleman who did my engine work raced the Western US circuit in the 70's and 80's. He also built engines for the top US riders during that time, most notably for Danny "Magoo" Chandler(before his accident in Paris). This is what he taught me:

1) Mix the oil to the OIL manufacurers spec. For instance, I use the Husky 40:1 in everything. I mix it to spec.

If you mix a 40:1 oil to 20:1 per the trimmer manu spec, then it will:
smoke
foul the plug
run hot(oil burns hot, ie diesel
Foul out your muffler/spark arrester
simply wastes the oil.

2) Don't keep your mixed gas forever.

Through his studies, he found the 2 stroke mix starts to break down after 48 hours. This is important to a expensive race engine, when the BIG$$$ and championship are on the line. It does not lubricate properly anymore. Can you say overheat and sieze on the last lap with $250,000 on the line...

So, I mix small batches, and use them right away. So it's only a $300 weedater/brush cutter. But, gas and oil are cheap compared to this.

3) Use good oil

Well, Mark would say Amsoil here. I know they make a good 100:1 2-stroke mix. Anyway though, use quality oil... plain and simple.

I use Husky oil,; have foir a few years now. Since I took his advice, my 2-strokes have run smoother, and required less maintanance(plugs, muffler cleanup ect). Before I sold the bikes, they ran great too.

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[_RaT_]

Robert, your right on the other side of the lake from me. The advice you gave is pretty much the way I do it. It won't be long and 2 cycles will be history in this state, outboard motors are not permitted in some lakes like Tahoe, just thought I would clue the rest of the country into whats coming. Rat...

 

[MChalkley]

Actually, I do use Amsoil 100-to-1 synthetic and have had excellent results with it in my Stihl 044 chainsaw, two Stihl trimmers, and 20-something year-old Poulan 25.

My Kubota dealer has his own ultralight plane and says his engine temps have gone down 35 degrees since switching. And he's seeing a lot less wear when he does the scheduled overhauls.

Mark

 

[jdkid]

hi Rat
I know it's off the oil line of thinking but why are the 2 strokes being banned?? just think of carting a 4 stroke saw around all day or is it just outboards?
catch ya
JD Kid

 

[_RaT_]

jdkid, right now they ban outboards on "sensitive lakes" here in California, Lake Tahoe being one of them. There is not doubt that the 2 cycle engines pollute more, but there is a practical side as you also hint at. Chainsaws being one great example. I have seen the new Honda 4 cycle string and blade trimmers that are available. They are not much heavier, and quite frankly, beat a 2 stroke hands down in power, quietness and smell of exhaust. They are really smooth and start on the first pull period. Cost is more for sure though. Rat...

 

[RobertN]

My understanding is that after 1999, you can only use new 2-stroke dirt bikes on tracks only, and that the OHV park here in Sacramento only allows them on certain days. Kalifornia is getting really tough on them, even is they run on Amsoil(Mark!).

A guy I work with just got a new Honda trimmer, comparable to my older Husky 225R. It was a little more expensive, but he said same thing. Quiet, powerful, no smell, and no gas mixes. Ryobi also offers 4-stroke trimmers.

I wonder how long till Husk, Stihl, and the other get into the act?

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif