5' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

[theboman]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

Can't see how the HP boost would increase the PTO HP. Now, I ain't no mechanic, and ain't no engineer, but 540 RPM is 540 RPM and the same gears are turning the shaft.

Maybe I'm 100% wrong, it happens often. I just don't see the PTO gaining HP.

20% is a HUGE swing in HP. Increase the hydraulics 20% on a tractor, especially compact and subs and you're destroy many a machine and a few people. You can't ask a B3130 do to do what a B7500 to do.... That's close to 20%.
Think of digging... You'll drag a backhoe into every hole you dig.

 

[bdog]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

HUH? PTO HP is directly related to engine HP. Do you think your electric drill turning at 540 rpm could power your shredder? The extra HP allows the shaft to continue at 540rpm under load.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

<font color="red">
HUH? PTO HP is directly related to engine HP. Do you think your electric drill turning at 540 rpm could power your shredder? The extra HP allows the shaft to continue at 540rpm under load.
</font>


I sell candy to kids, so you might have to talk s-l-o-w & LOUD to get me to understand you, but I don't see how the turbo will increase the PTO hp either. My logic is this, to turn the PTO at 540 rpm you have to have the engine speed turning at a specific engine RPM. That RPM will be the same regardless of if you have a normally aspirated or injected engine or if you drop a turbocharger on your engine. Now I do agree that the turbo will provide greater HP when you wind it up (I have a high pressure turborcharger on one of my convertibles and the thrust is pretty amazine when you put your foot down). But under normal running conditions the turbo provides minimal/no boost. As the PTO is effectively limited by the need to run at 540 RPM, the turbo effect would likely be minimized to negligable.

Further, I'm just guessing here, but the real way to utilize the turbo boost properly would be to change all your gearing so that the turbo boost works effectively & efficiently while the PTO is at 540 RPM. Which means the torque curve with the turbo boost and the HP curve would have to be coordinated with the transmission so they peaked at the 540 PTO RPM. Now I suppose you could calibrate the turbo to provide boost early on so you are getting boost at the correct RPMs to run the PTO at 540, but will that alter the torqe and HP curves???

It seems that simply turbocharging the engine, without redoing the gearing to coordinate the PTO would effectively provide greater HP but that HP might not be useable by the implement since the implement is set to operate best at 540 rpm, and the 540 rpm is geared directly to the engine rpms.

Am I missing something? But if you alter one, you better alter the other.

 

[Pooh_Bear]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

I don't understand the original question.
I have a 1949 8n. What is that, about 23-28 hp?
It will run all the implements I want for it.
Just have to get implements sized to the tractor.

What size is your tractor and what is it you are wanting to run?

Pooh Bear

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

<font color="red">
What size is your tractor and what is it you are wanting to run? </font>

I think you summed up my original response to Nomad's question too! After all this discussion, I still don't get it either.

 

[hobbyfarm]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Hmmm, a turbo charger would increase the engine horsepower but not the PTO horsepower.
)</font>

Boman,
Keep up with me here,

|engine, naturally aspirated = 30HP| + |transmission (takes 5HP to run)| |PTO=25HP|

|engine + turbo (20% boost in power) = 36HP| + |transmission (takes 5HP to run)| |PTO=31HP|

S i m p l e math. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
The transmission does not take more power to run just because it is given more power. You increase the input power, you will receive more PTO HP.

In the dealers, they are always dynoing tractors to see if they are in spec. A lot of the time, they are not. We had a IH 1256 that dynoed 12HP over advertised HP soon as we got it. Of course, I say "advertised" is more or less what they try for.

 

[notamustang]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

<font color="blue">LOL, why not run propane too. Lets have 2000 LBS tractors with 50 HP engines </font>

You say that like its a bad thing/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I guess your not into drag racing either, those cars must be SO LUDICROUS. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[hobbyfarm]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( HUH? PTO HP is directly related to engine HP. )</font>

C'mon bdog,
PTO HP is directly related to engine HP. And it has acting on this engineHP this "algorithm" called a transmission acting on it. The one thing that will change what gets to the back of the implement is things that change in the transmission. Such as engaging the MFWD (more stuff to drive - more friction). EngineHP did not change, PTO may have only changed enough to be measured with a dynomometer. What will change your engine HP is accessories on the engine itself. Click on the AC, boom 3-5HP absorbed. Though it may only show up as heat on the temp gauge and you probably won't notice any difference by the seat of your pants.

After all, what is horsepower?
The ability to move a given load in a given amount of time. The more power you got, the quicker you can move the load.

See? S i m p l e . /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Off the soapbox. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

I think I follow this: small or obsolete farm implements (often very affordable) are often the perfect size for CUT size projects, but were designed around 40HP.

Just adding extra HP capacity won't add stress to anything (outside the engine) you're not using extra HP for (lets say oversized mower, extra stress to PTO components, but not the drive train; plow, vice versa).

I'd be real carefull about the balance with ground engaging over HP rating unless you're an acrobat.

For HP, I'm with blue; do the research on what your components should handle (often you can put a limited excess stress on most components if willing to accept accellerated wear).

Also, as far the turbo charger, I'd say Bob is right on about the torque curve changing...and I'd say empirical data is the only way to find out for sure it falls in your useful range (make sure your head, crank, etc can take the extra stress too). Personally, I'd think a super charger would give you less "turbo lag" for a flatter torque curve, but each to their own!

Finally, remember much of the "old iron" was rated at low RPMs [compared to modern "small engines"] and 40HP would have much better ability to apply a particular continous torque without damage. Your best bet with "oversize" equipment [whether you add HP or not] is to keep your speed down where it's really within the HP range of your machine.

Good luck! I'm curious.....

 

[Soundguy]

Re: 5\' or bigger implements by Compact Tractors?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( LOL, why not run propane too. Lets have 2000 LBS tractors with 50 HP engines. Can a 2000 Lbs. subcompact safely operate a 1500 Lbs. tiller? This is ludicrous that someone who claims to have an engineering background would suggest this. Sizing the implements to the tractor is the only safe thing to do. )</font>

DITTO!!!

Back in the day, people dropped 100hp V8 engines in Ford 8N tractors.. making it a 100hp tractor weighing about 3000#

That 100hp tractor ain't pulling a 18' batwing disc harrow.

The HP is there.. but the tires would just dig holes inthe ground spinning.

Sometimes I think Nomad just posts these questions to see us 'knee-jerk'

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soundguy