5264

[Hard]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My dealer is trying to steer me away from the diesel and towards the 4WD Kawi instead. He's implying the diesel in this model is not as good at the CAT in the 6000 series, and that, for the money, the Kawi is a better engine. Any thoughts? Price quoted is $8700. )</font>

He is steering you towards the Kawasaki because it will sit on his lot longer than a diesel. The Diahatsu diesel is great. It's strong running, and very smooth. I strongly recommend you spend a few dollars more and get the diesel. Should you ever need to sell your tractor you will find it easier to sell and you'll get more money for a used diesel than a gas 5000 series Cub. Take a pass on the gas!

 

[baskintreefarm]

You and gamble77 have been very helpful. I had a long visit with the local dealer on Saturday as a result of everything I learned in this forum. He readily conceded that he intentionally doesn't order the 5000 series diesels; but he claims that its for two reasons: the 6000 diesels are big sellers, but so are the 5000 Kawis; and he moves a lot of these small to mid size tractors in our area.
Also, the price of $8700 was "out the door" meaning it included our huge MN sales taxes; and his starting point was actually under the retail price listed.
So I think he's being straight with me, and giving me a good price, and now I need to decide between gas and diesel; having already concluded the 5000 is as big a machine as I need for cleaning up my field, planting seedlings and yard mowing.

 

[Hard]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You and gamble77 have been very helpful. I had a long visit with the local dealer on Saturday as a result of everything I learned in this forum. He readily conceded that he intentionally doesn't order the 5000 series diesels; but he claims that its for two reasons: the 6000 diesels are big sellers, but so are the 5000 Kawis; and he moves a lot of these small to mid size tractors in our area.
Also, the price of $8700 was "out the door" meaning it included our huge MN sales taxes; and his starting point was actually under the retail price listed.
So I think he's being straight with me, and giving me a good price, and now I need to decide between gas and diesel; having already concluded the 5000 is as big a machine as I need for cleaning up my field, planting seedlings and yard mowing.
)</font>

When I bought my 5234D there were 2 6000 series tractors on the dealers showroom floor. He told me that the Diahatsu diesel is a smoother running engine than the CAT in the 6284. I could have bought either tractor, it didn't matter to him. The 5234D is all the tractor I needed. I just plowed 15 to 17" of snow with a 6' rear blade on my 500' driveway and a large parking area with out a problem.

Whatever you buy, spend a little more and get the diesel.

 

[baskintreefarm]

Thanks again, you guys are persuasive. I really haven't heard much about the Kawasaki engine. Does anyone have anything to say about it, good or bad?

 

[ducati996]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Thanks again, you guys are persuasive. I really haven't heard much about the Kawasaki engine. Does anyone have anything to say about it, good or bad? )</font>

Is the gas your choice ? dont worry about the dealers feelings if you go diesel. But I understand some folks like gas, and maybe affraid of diesels. There is nothing to be affraid - just remember these 3 things - better fuel economy, longevity, and resale value going with diesels.

I know it dosent answer you Kawi question - they are great motors and are great for high end Garden tractors - you are now in the sub-cut area and diesel should be the way to go
IMO

 

[JohnSinVA]

Well, diesel is usually the way to go. It has longevity, fuel economy, and resale value on its side. Everything has its downside, however, and in diesel's case it's maintence (higher compression goes through lubricants and filters much quicker), cold weather fuel properties (usually calls for fuel additives in winter), and smell as a minor annoyance (which will go away as low-sulphur fuel becomes more widely available).

You continue asking about gas, which tells me you're really thinking hard about taking the deal at $8700, which is a very good deal if it includes the MMM. The Kawasaki gas engine is excellent, fuel injection improves economy, though not to that of a diesel, it's far quieter than a diesel and it has a pretty flat torque curve. You haven't really said what tasks you'll be asking of your tractor, which will really be the ultimate factor you must consider when choosing your powerplant. If you're planning on mostly mowing with a MMM, some FEL work, and driving some smaller implements off the rear PTO, the gas engine will do the job. If you think you might want to run some heavier implements off the rear pto, like a big bush hog, or a PHD, or something similar, go diesel. The extra torque the diesel can deliver will be essential in these heavier duty tasks.

 

[Maveric]

I don't intend to make an argument against diesels but with this size machine I personally don't think the benefit of a diesel is as great with a larger machine. No doubt they will benefit from a little more longevity and better resale depending on who is buying. Torque with a diesel this size compared to a gas of the same size is a non issue, there is hardly a difference. I have gone to the Kawasaki web site and the Daihatsu (Briggs) web site and the torque is basically identical and fuel consumption with the diesel is slightly less. They give horsepower, torque and fuel consumption charts. Diesels need to be turbo charged to benefit the most and that is where you will see huge differences in fuel economy and torque gains such as the larger engines that operate extended periods of time at near peak loads. In those environments a gas engine can't even compare. I own a 5254 (Kawasaki) and love it. It's quite, smooth, starts like a champ no matter what the weather,but I don't operate it all day every day and if I did the diesel probably would have been the better choice. Diesels are also more picky about fuel quality, as far as contamination and have expensive fuel filters, more expensive batteries and starters, but with a little extra care to a machine stored inside this is probably a not an issue.

 

[ducati996]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't intend to make an argument against diesels but with this size machine I personally don't think the benefit of a diesel is as great with a larger machine. No doubt they will benefit from a little more longevity and better resale depending on who is buying. Torque with a diesel this size compared to a gas of the same size is a non issue, there is hardly a difference. I have gone to the Kawasaki web site and the Daihatsu (Briggs) web site and the torque is basically identical and fuel consumption with the diesel is slightly less. They give horsepower, torque and fuel consumption charts. Diesels need to be turbo charged to benefit the most and that is where you will see huge differences in fuel economy and torque gains such as the larger engines that operate extended periods of time at near peak loads. In those environments a gas engine can't even compare. I own a 5254 (Kawasaki) and love it. It's quite, smooth, starts like a champ no matter what the weather,but I don't operate it all day every day and if I did the diesel probably would have been the better choice. Diesels are also more picky about fuel quality, as far as contamination and have expensive fuel filters, more expensive batteries and starters, but with a little extra care to a machine stored inside this is probably a not an issue.

)</font>

I have to disagree with most of what you said - in fact pretty much all of it -

With your logic pretty much all diesels offered in sub-cut and larger arent worth the time...

Diesels are significantly more fuel effiecient over gas, the torque number maybe the same but its all in the curve - diesels offer full torque at the lowest RPM, thats why they can churn through things better than gas anyday of the week. And this turbo charge statement? Makes no sense
The batteries and starters cost more? actually they dont 435 CCA battery costs the same on either machine.
Cold weather is not really an issue since they operate just fine in low temps. More expensive fuel filters? You empty it out once in a while - you dont need to replace it unless you destroy it LOL

In all honesty its not even a close comparision between them -
thats why they cost more and are the more desired -

Hope this helps you

Duc

 

[Maveric]

I never intended to insinuate that the small diesels weren't worth the time. I stated in the post that had I intended to operate mine for extended periods of time I would have chosen the diesel. The difference in fuel economy would have then paid off. I never meant that the diesel would be the wrong choice. Some of that would be personal preference and intended use. As far as the torque curve they are nearly indentical on these two engines, very little difference, look and see. I'm sorry the turbo charger statement makes no sense to you, but you will be hard pressed to find a larger diesel engine that is not turbo charged. The turbo charger helps make lots of cylinder pressure and that translates into big torque. The more air you can move through an engine the more fuel can be burned which translates into more power. An internal combustion engine is basically an air pump. Once again I was not bashing diesels in sub compact tractors, but what is right for one is not always right for all. I didn't mean to offend anyone. You are no doubt a diesel owner, 5234 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Fordlords]

Not an argument against the diesel, but last year I toted around to trade shows in my truck a big John Deere mower with a water cooled fuel injected Kawasaki V twin. I had to drive the mower in and out of my truck, and I have to say that engine would start right up and run smoothly just like the family car no matter how cold it was. Turn the key and go. The Kawi engines also look to be easy to service and reasonably priced to replace, thus to me they look like something you can't go wrong with.

From driving trucks, I can say that diesels have their advantages, but can be fussy with fuel and filters, fussy when cold, and expensive to repair if the need arises, and you often can't do too many repairs yourself which means a trip to the shop. I guess if I were weighing things, if using the tractor for an every day workhorse, I'd go diesel. If for a weekend warrior, I'd go gas. JMHO /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

-Fordlords-