77 Satoh Beaver S370D wont start, low compression

[Kernopelli]

Hang in there, you're getting closer. Don't know if you have seen this but these guys are great and super helpful/ good to deal with. Valley Power some good S370 parts diagrams and general info on the site!

 

[HomesteadOC]

Hang in there, you're getting closer. Don't know if you have seen this but these guys are great and super helpful/ good to deal with. Valley Power some good S370 parts diagrams and general info on the site!

Ive talkedto themand bought a manual from them, really nice and really knowledgeable. He was saying that I would probably need a re-ring with the 275/300psi numbers I gave him. Before I tried the ATF in the cylinders. Im still hoping that it wont come to that. My optima battery is pretty dead as well, but still better than the one that was in the tractor. My cranking is a whole lot faster, but its not holding a charge without the jumper/charger, and its still not starting. Ill need a new battery anyway so Ill just go get one.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I just watched the video.. no way in he** is that gonna start w/ that battery..
Once you get a new battery in there..
Loosen the lines AT THE INJECTORS, spin the engine & watch the fuel squirt out.. make sure theres NO AIR & only fuel..
Once you get fuel, tighten them up.. it should fire off..
I didn't like the statement>> you were still getting fuel w/ the lever in the shut off position.. but we'll get to THAT, once you get it spinning properly.

 

[HomesteadOC]

The tractor takes a group 51 battery, and no one local had one in stock. The fastest cheapest option was $75 for a 675 amp battery from lowes picked up at the store 3/28. Not a bad deal, but its going to take forever. I cant get the car close enough to the tractor to jump this thing. Both batteries Ive used seem too weak to do anything for this. Maybe Ill pull the starter off and take it to get tested just to get that out of the way while Im waiting for the new battery. Might as well take the alternator in for a check while Im at it. Since I cant get the car close enough to jump, Ill pull that battery and see what it can do. If that one is having trouble then its got to be the starter. If it cranks all day like it should then Ill be happy I already ordered the battery.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I'm not familiar w/ the tractor itself but I'm well versed in diesel engines & fuel systems..
is it possible this engine has a "decompression lever"on it??
IF IT DOES, the mechanism will be mounted somewhere on & inside the valve cover..
The sound your hearing when your trying to start it is.. the low power of the starter, no able to overcome/spin thru, the compression stroke of the engine..
it spins fast, then slow, then fast again..
so either your not supplying enough "juice" to the starter or the starter itself is weak..
I'll go back thru the engine/valve cover pics & see if I notice any linkage.. for a decomp..

 

[thepumpguysc]

1 more thing..
..disconnect the air intake hoses/filter from the engine..
Just to give it a breath of fresh air.. so it isn't fighting to breath thru the filter & hoses..
& watch-out for loose rags laying around BEFORE you go cranking on the starter..!!!
THEY WILL get sucked into the intake.. [ask me how I know, lol}

 

[HomesteadOC]

Pulled the battery out of the car and got some really good cranks, but still doesnt start. Im not sure theres anything else to do before I re-ring. Did not see any decompression lever, but maybe I dont really know what Im looking for. Heres the video.

Is there a way to tell what kind of rings I need (keystone vs square) before I pull everything apart? What gaskets will I need, seems like valve cover, head, and oil pan? Should I replace rod bearings while Im in there? Id like to order everything while Im tearing it down, but I wont be able to put eyes on the rings before saturday. I have a parts washer and probably some ring tools at work that Im going to use.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Heres an attempt with no air filter connected.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

So you're sure the glow plugs are energized while you're cranking, correct? Check with multi-meter while cranking that they have 10VDC or so - this should be easy with the four hands we all have - lol. Hopefully you have alligator clips for this. If you have the 10VDC, then this would confirm your compression is too low. Ideally you would measure amps to the glow plugs and not voltage but most people don't have DC ammeters yet but I would recommend getting one. Amps would be around 20 (10A for each plug). I would like to see more black smoke and the glow plugs should be making that happen somewhat independent of compression. The last thing you can try is this: start out with the fuel lever about 1/3 of the way to full fuel position (full is to the rear to confirm). Start cranking. After cranking for about 5-6 seconds begin to move the lever SLOWLY towards full fuel position. You should notice a change in the engine cranking speed. It should begin to go a little faster and will reach a point when it will go slower again. When it begins to drop in speed you are in an overfueling condition for the amount of compression you have. Back the lever off until the engine speeds up again and keep cranking. It MIGHT start after 15-20 seconds. This is somewhat of a silly exercise because we know your compression is low up to this point (unless the glow plugs are not working) but I've gotten engines to start this way. It is not good for your starter. Even if it runs it likely will need a re-ring/bore immediately. NEVER USE ETHER to start these engines unless you know your glow plugs are disabled and cold!

 

[HomesteadOC]

Im getting voltage during cranking, and preheating. I was doing the feathering of the throttle to hit the sweet spot but it still wouldn't start once there. I just drained the oil and pulled the valve cover, im going to pull the head and see what I can see. I noticed 2 of my valves are a little loose at where they happened to land, book say to check at TDC, but Im not sure how to get it there yet.