Adding DPF to 350KW Generac

   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #31  
At full load the exhaust stream will be 1200 degrees or more. There is little change from one end to the other due to the volume of exhaust from an engine and it must be able to run at full load indefinitely.

A wood stove has a fraction of the volume of exhaust and will shed a lot heat along the pipe.
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #32  
At full load the exhaust stream will be 1200 degrees or more.
OK then, that blows my thoughts all to pieces LOL, I honestly didn't think it would get that hot...........Mike
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #33  
Yup they do.

IMG_9922.jpg
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #34  
May not even be a back room deal... Many government sites want to show they are ahead of the emission rules and going beyond because they are so progressive.

I think I mentioned that around here they spent almost as much on add on aftermarket after treatment systems on new generators as the generators themselves when it wasn’t required for their application. This on a site where they are extremely unlikely to run more than 14 hrs a year. On the operation and maintenance side they will add about 60% to the operating cost even if nothing fails. They keep about 750gal of DEF on site that has a shelf life of roughly a year and has to be disposed of and replaced.

After treatment is almost the new snake oil (only difference is the results can be tested and proven). It can be done right but should be properly integrated with the engine and will never have the reliability of the bare engine.

More and more small after treatment companies are popping up and putting the squeeze on public utilities and governments in particular since if they say no, they can go public and say “this or that public agency doesn’t care about your air”.

The same thing happened about 20 years ago with fuel polishing... A couple fuel polishing companies popped up and hit the government sites and large commercial buildings. If government sites said no, they wrote letters to the editor and contacted reporters who wrote newspaper articles, I remember one front page headline saying “80% of emergency generators may not start”. In 25 years I’ve seen two diesel gensets that wouldn’t start because of old fuel. Most actual fail to start conditions were and still are battery related for diesels. Nat gas and propane have more fuel related no start issues than battery.

I guess that’s another rant done.

To answer the actual question at hand, raise the exhaust above the roofline with sched 40 pipe is the proper solution and should have been done when it was installed. For 35’ there will need to be an expansion joint and hangers that allow movement but shouldn’t cost anywhere near $100k. I’d guess about $20k for a mechanical contractor, double that for a generator company to farm it out to the same mechanical contractor.

Yep... got a few related rants myself...

Back in 1991 is was originally hired due to a no start condition on a propane ER generator...

In 1995 replaced with the diesel with had double containment tank and alarmed for leakage...

I dipped the tank quarterly for water and always clear...

Three years ago inspector said dip test no good so we have a third party come out and collect a sample which is sent to a lab for analysis...

At this time State decided annual load bank required even though building load exceeds load requirement...

First year load bank almost destroyed system as the OEM service tech reversed polarity and slammed all the motor loads... 3, 5, 10 and 15 hp forced to reverse direction... two motors destroyed..
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #35  
May not even be a back room deal... Many government sites want to show they are ahead of the emission rules and going beyond because they are so progressive.

I think I mentioned that around here they spent almost as much on add on aftermarket after treatment systems on new generators as the generators themselves when it wasn稚 required for their application. This on a site where they are extremely unlikely to run more than 14 hrs a year. On the operation and maintenance side they will add about 60% to the operating cost even if nothing fails. They keep about 750gal of DEF on site that has a shelf life of roughly a year and has to be disposed of and replaced.

After treatment is almost the new snake oil (only difference is the results can be tested and proven). It can be done right but should be properly integrated with the engine and will never have the reliability of the bare engine.

More and more small after treatment companies are popping up and putting the squeeze on public utilities and governments in particular since if they say no, they can go public and say 鍍his or that public agency doesn稚 care about your air?

The same thing happened about 20 years ago with fuel polishing... A couple fuel polishing companies popped up and hit the government sites and large commercial buildings. If government sites said no, they wrote letters to the editor and contacted reporters who wrote newspaper articles, I remember one front page headline saying ?0% of emergency generators may not start? In 25 years I致e seen two diesel gensets that wouldn稚 start because of old fuel. Most actual fail to start conditions were and still are battery related for diesels. Nat gas and propane have more fuel related no start issues than battery.

I guess that痴 another rant done.

To answer the actual question at hand, raise the exhaust above the roofline with sched 40 pipe is the proper solution and should have been done when it was installed. For 35 there will need to be an expansion joint and hangers that allow movement but shouldn稚 cost anywhere near $100k. I壇 guess about $20k for a mechanical contractor, double that for a generator company to farm it out to the same mechanical contractor.

Yep... got a few related rants myself...

Back in 1991 originally hired due to a no start condition on a propane ER generator... Battery

In 1995 replaced with diesel with double containment tank and alarmed for leakage...

I dip tested fuel tank quarterly for water and always clear...

Three years ago Medicare Inspector said dip test no good so we have a third party come out and collect a sample which is sent to a lab for analysis...

At this time State decided annual load bank required even though building load exceeds load requirement...

First year load bank testing almost destroyed system as the OEM service tech reversed polarity and slammed all the motor loads... 3, 5, 10 and 15 hp forced to reverse direction... two motors destroyed...

I don't even want to think about what would have happened if power needed during surgery...
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #37  
That’s a K50 Cummins but pretty much any commercial genset engine looks like that at full load and is expected to be able to run like that indefinitely.

Commissioning testing requires running at full load anywhere from 4 to 24 hours and occasionally 48 hours but within an hour the far end of a 100’ insulated exhaust pipe will be 1000 degrees. The exhaust stream doesn’t change temperature much from the engine to discharge.
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #38  
What a terribly sad case, where modern ways overcome reason and practicality, oh and saving money. This generator might never be used. And if, in an emergency, what's the BIG deal? I have a customer that got rid of an old Allis/Onan. Put in a brand new state of the art compliant generator, that failed to start, the FIRST time it was needed. That's OK, it was Christmas day, and I offered to go see what was wrong, AND got it going. Easy money!
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #39  
Seems like all of a sudden the "air quality" in the building is poor when the unit goes into its test cycle every Tuesday at around 10AM as the exhaust on the genset is only about 8' off the ground about 5' from the building and the exhaust fumes make it to the HVAC air intakes on roofs.
Cost to move the hvac intake?
 
   / Adding DPF to 350KW Generac #40  
I have run into these sites before. People complaining of Diesel Exhaust from the Generators excercising. Fine, just forget it. Let them pull some electricity out of their you know where, the next time the power fails!.
 
 
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