And the HP Wars Begin

[Renze]

Agree. I think 30 MPG hwy miles unloaded would be a top seller. I would buy one. Especially if you could tow ~10K lbs.

Toyota Hilux 3.0 D4D puts out 343 Nm and 172 hp, tow rating 3000kg (6600lbs) and fuel consumption empty, mixed traffic 8.3l/100km or 12 km per liter, which is 28 mile per gallon.
Its available here, but vans are way more popular here.

I dont think anything of which a manufacturer warrants 10k tow rating, will get over 23 mile per gallon...

 

[RobertN]

This was more related to winning at the track. "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday". Ie, whoever wins on Sunday has buyers in the showroom on Monday.

I'm not really into Nascar, but somebody once said, "horsepower sells cars, but torque wins races"

 

[RobertN]

I wonder how the current 4 cylinder version of the Cummins 6 used here in the US would do for mileage in a 1500 series pickup? I have heard they are a popular conversion in Australia for Toyota Landcrusher, I mean Land Cruiser FJ40 based rigs.

Toyota Hilux 3.0 D4D puts out 343 Nm and 172 hp, tow rating 3000kg (6600lbs) and fuel consumption empty, mixed traffic 8.3l/100km or 12 km per liter, which is 28 mile per gallon.
Its available here, but vans are way more popular here.

 

[TheGoose]

If a mid 2000's diesel can get low 20's on the hwy and tow 10,000+ lbs I don't see why a newer, smaller diesel engine coupled with an efficient transmission can't get close to the 30 mpg mark. My wife's old truck was a 6.2L naturally aspirated 130 HP 1/2ton diesel that got high 20's in the early 80's. She claimed better than 25 MPG and this was in a full-size truck. Smaller engine, more efficient, and a better transmission. Perhaps they need to consider a slightly smaller truck, like the old Tundra style (7/8's full-size). Would love to be able to get ~30 mpg and still be able to tow my tractor and boat easily.

Toyota Hilux 3.0 D4D puts out 343 Nm and 172 hp, tow rating 3000kg (6600lbs) and fuel consumption empty, mixed traffic 8.3l/100km or 12 km per liter, which is 28 mile per gallon.
Its available here, but vans are way more popular here.

I dont think anything of which a manufacturer warrants 10k tow rating, will get over 23 mile per gallon...

 

[Renze]

yes, mid 2000's... emission stage one..
particulate filters and urea injection will only increase the total cost per mile: An efficient combustion is one with an excess of oxygen, resulting in total, full combustion at hot temperatures. Hot combustion will result in NoX.
To decrease the NoX manufacturers have to lower the combustion temperature by lowering the oxygen content of the air (but still putting in enough air to combust) so they recirculate exhaust gas into the intake, to take in the same amount of oxygen but mixed in a greater mass of air.
All in all, lowering NoX emission means moving away from the engines most efficient combustion, thus increasing fuel consumption. SCR also has to be payd for, and the total fluid consumption (diesel plus AdBlue) will increase over that mid 2000's diesel.

And that mid 2000's diesel you said, had 130hp which is something different than 300hp you guys are wishing....

I have been to sales meetings of engine manufacturers, and they wont deny that we are already over the peak of fuel efficiency in internal combustion engines, due to emissions. It wont get any better than stage 1 high pressure direct injection engines.


I guess the reason that Dodge doesnt put that QSB4.5 in a 1500 and 2500 Ram yet, is because the 4 cylinder doesnt sound very classy in a big pickup truck.
We do get them in Europe, badged Paccar, in the DAF 45 line of small/medium duty trucks.

Toyota had the 4.2 liter inline six. If they upgrade that to the engineering standard of the D4D engines, it will be a winner in a Tacoma...

 

[Lt CHEG]

If a mid 2000's diesel can get low 20's on the hwy and tow 10,000+ lbs I don't see why a newer, smaller diesel engine coupled with an efficient transmission can't get close to the 30 mpg mark. My wife's old truck was a 6.2L naturally aspirated 130 HP 1/2ton diesel that got high 20's in the early 80's. She claimed better than 25 MPG and this was in a full-size truck. Smaller engine, more efficient, and a better transmission. Perhaps they need to consider a slightly smaller truck, like the old Tundra style (7/8's full-size). Would love to be able to get ~30 mpg and still be able to tow my tractor and boat easily.

I certainly think that we could see a 30mpg highway unloaded diesel engine that could tow 7,000 pounds, but getting that mileage and being able to tow 10,000 pounds while meeting emissions requirements may be a bit of a stretch. I have no doubt that 25 to 26 mpg highway unloaded with cruising speeds of about 75 mph could be obtained with a truck capable of pulling 10,000. It would probably require 3.31 or 3.42 gears with a 6 speed auto utilizing a granny low gear to get things moving and a really tall overdrive gear for the highway. In a diesel engine approximately 4.5 to 5.0 liters in size I think that's definitely doable. Early 2000 CTDs could get close to that on the highway unloaded and that was with 4 speed transmissions and lower rear end gears. An engine slightly smaller than 5.9L with the new technology to wake up the power could produce these results. And I hope the new smaller duramax will deliver.

 

[CCOUGHRAN1]

A 12v cummins with the 3.55 rearend and a NV4500 could get some pretty high MPG, and was still very capable of pulling 10k.

My 03 3500 4x4 DRW CTD w/ NV5600 can get mid twenties, but I have to keep it below 2k RPM which is more like 63-65mph. I imagine a 2wd, reg cab, SRW could do even better.

 

[Renze]

A 12v cummins with the 3.55 rearend and a NV4500 could get some pretty high MPG, and was still very capable of pulling 10k.

My 03 3500 4x4 DRW CTD w/ NV5600 can get mid twenties, but I have to keep it below 2k RPM which is more like 63-65mph. I imagine a 2wd, reg cab, SRW could do even better.

A cousin of mine in Ontario has a 2wd reg cab 2500 12V cummins which he claimed, did 12km per liter on long highway trips, which is 28 mpg.

 

[TheGoose]

If an UNLOADED 1/2 ton truck is capable of towing 10,000 lbs with a ~5 Liter gas engine (Ford, Chevy) and getting 20 mpg hwy (claimed) then I don't see why an UNLOADED truck of similar size with a ~4L diesel could not get 25-28 MPG unloaded but then still be capable of towing 10,000 lbs. I really think ~8K would be plenty, but you get my drift.

I'm not refering to a loaded truck getting 30 MPG, but I would be that most of us do 99.9% of our driving unloaded. You should still expect mid-teens in MPG while modestly loaded.

I certainly think that we could see a 30mpg highway unloaded diesel engine that could tow 7,000 pounds, but getting that mileage and being able to tow 10,000 pounds while meeting emissions requirements may be a bit of a stretch. I have no doubt that 25 to 26 mpg highway unloaded with cruising speeds of about 75 mph could be obtained with a truck capable of pulling 10,000. It would probably require 3.31 or 3.42 gears with a 6 speed auto utilizing a granny low gear to get things moving and a really tall overdrive gear for the highway. In a diesel engine approximately 4.5 to 5.0 liters in size I think that's definitely doable. Early 2000 CTDs could get close to that on the highway unloaded and that was with 4 speed transmissions and lower rear end gears. An engine slightly smaller than 5.9L with the new technology to wake up the power could produce these results. And I hope the new smaller duramax will deliver.