At Home In The Woods

[Pops15]

Where are we using 2x12 headers?? Pops?? not on a house unless over the garage door, zat what ur talkin about??

I can't wait to move down south.

Yes on houses. Windows and doors get 1/2" 4 ply plywood sandwiched between two 2X12's. Garage doors usually get two pieces of 16" laminated veneer lumber (LVL), or two 2X12's with a 1/2" steel plate between them (flitch beam), or in some cases 16" tall glu-lam headers.
One town we built some houses in required flitch beams over doors or windows wider than 8'.
I've seen 2X10 picture window headers in 50 year old houses that had deflected 5/8". I find that to be totally unacceptable.

 

[Pops15]

I'm wondering if we need to put plastic down on the floors. This time of year is the rainy season here.

Obed

I've never used Advantek but one of the benefits of using it is it doesn't absorb as much water as plywood or OSB. I'd say if your contractor is going to get the house closed in quickly you won't need to put down visqueen (plastic sheeting).....but doing so will make clean up after the drywallers and painters much easier. A word of caution though.....it's very slippery when wet. Don't ask how I know.
How does Advantek compare to T & G plywood price wise?

 

[dcyrilc]

From what I've read, Advantec is good stuff. I've seen it used on quite a few commercial jobs, but I don't have any experience with it myself. For wood floors, I like 3/4 T&G plywood. I also use construction glue and screws to hold it down. I never nail a sub floor, but that's just me and probably a bit of overkill.Eddie

I think you are probably right about the overkill Eddie, but it sure helps to prevent squeeky floors down the road! I wish the builder had done it on the house we bought.

 

[EddieWalker]

My first house had some beautiful hardwood floors. Unfortuanately, they squeeked. I got pretty good at hammering wedges into the spot where the squeek was, but it was just a matter of time until a new squeek apeared. Fix it in one place, it would just come back somwhere else.

After that, I'm paranoid about squeeky floors.

Eddie

 

[jake98]

Yes on houses. Windows and doors get 1/2" 4 ply plywood sandwiched between two 2X12's. Garage doors usually get two pieces of 16" laminated veneer lumber (LVL), or two 2X12's with a 1/2" steel plate between them (flitch beam), or in some cases 16" tall glu-lam headers.
One town we built some houses in required flitch beams over doors or windows wider than 8'.
I've seen 2X10 picture window headers in 50 year old houses that had deflected 5/8". I find that to be totally unacceptable.

We were talking about normal door and window headers, I think. To put anything in them (or using 2x12's) is a waste of sombody's money. Garage doors to something like 10 or 12 feet are done (standard) with 2 2x12s. No flitch, no plywood.. If there's a point load over them, they get spec'd.
The fifty year old sagging happened forty nine and a half years ago. We can't argue about long headers because they were always spec'd, but if you've always put the better grades plywood inside of 38" headers, it's a different argument, about wasting people's money. I don't want to argue with you about that, Pops.

 

[jake98]

I'm curious about how much damage can be done to the decking if you trap the moisture under plastic on top of it. Not to mention how you snap lines for the walls.. I'm pretty sure that anything 'exterior grade' is meant to take the rain. What exactly is Advantec? T&G OSB, I thought.

 

[Pops15]

We were talking about normal door and window headers, I think. To put anything in them (or using 2x12's) is a waste of sombody's money. Garage doors to something like 10 or 12 feet are done (standard) with 2 2x12s. No flitch, no plywood.. If there's a point load over them, they get spec'd.
The fifty year old sagging happened forty nine and a half years ago. We can't argue about long headers because they were always spec'd, but if you've always put the better grades plywood inside of 38" headers, it's a different argument, about wasting people's money. I don't want to argue with you about that, Pops.

Yes, we're talking about normal door and window headers. A 2X10 header isn't tall enough for doors. If you use a 2X10 header you still have to nail a 2X4 flatways on the bottom of it...and use the plywood in it.
Is it really a waste of money if it prevents problems down the road? I've made some good money fixing things that were under built or just plain done wrong.

 

[Pops15]

For wood floors, I like 3/4 T&G plywood. I also use construction glue and screws to hold it down. I never nail a sub floor, but that's just me and probably a bit of overkill.

Eddie

Eddie, We used to use two layers of 1/2" plywood. Nailed 'em every 6" on the ends and every 8" in the field. No glue. Offset the joints between the layers both directions. NEVER had a squeak. To remain competitive we had to go to one layer of 3/4 T&G plywood. Nailed the same way and used construction adhesive. We had a few squeaks. Went to bigger diameter and longer (from 2 1/2" to 3") nails (more surface area to hold in the joists) and haven't had anymore squeaks.
Keeping the sheathing dry before and during construction will help reduce the possibility of squeaks.
You want to hear overkill? I screw underlayment down every 4" both directions. I hate squeaks too! Before someone posts that I'm running the cost up I'll point out that I charge the same as the guys that staple theirs down. I'll trade the added labor cost for piece of mind knowing I've done the best job I can and my customers won't have trouble a few years down the road.
Pops

 

[eepete]

Advantec and "glue and screw" is not overkill, it's the way to do it. Mine are on trusses on 2' centers.

The Advantec has an almost waxy surface on it, and it designed to and great at not absorbing water. It is indeed designed to be used as a subfloor that will be exposed to the elements for a brief time. But due to other problems in construction, mine sat out in the open on the main section of the house for about 8 weeks, and the edges did come up about 1/32 - 1/16 of an inch, so we had to sand them down. In the work room above the garage, the Advantec sat for only 2 weeks and was perfect and needed no touch-ups.
Have both hardwood T&G and vinyl tile on the advantec, no squeaks (the tile is on a layer of luan (sp) or 1/2 of plywood over the advantec).

I don't know how it's manufactured, and don't know if plastic over it would help or if it would hurt because it would not be able to get rid of moisture. All I know is that when used as directed, glued, and screwed it's great.

The two houses before this had nailed subfloors and lots of problems, I'll spare everyone the horror stories.

Pete

 

[harpoonalt]

Our builder used advantec as well. I was at the job site every day cleaning up and prepping lumber for the builders for the next day so I was paying them for building only. Ours was rained on repeatedly but I used a shop vac to get rid of it after the rain stopped. My builders guys commented that it was the cleanest job site they had ever been on but they came to work in the morning and had the lumber stacked and sorted by what they were going to use for the day and weren't tripping over scraps and debris. Ultimately it saved me money. The Advantec takes the weather much better than plywood. We also used all engineered lumber for floor joists and laminated beams where needed. The builder swears by the stuff for ease of building and providing a flat squeak free floor. I also nailed the floors every foot to further prevent any squeaks. 11,000 + nails in my floors and only one squeak where I had started nailing every 18".
Thanks Obed for detailing your adventure. I wish I had done mine here for tips as I built. I'm not sure I could do it again but it's fun following yours.