B3030 with BH75 or BH80-X Clearance?

[mazurrj]

Thanks Vic,
By the pictures that I have seen, I believe the lowest point is by the stabilizer joint.
Do you normally have problems bottoming out the Backhoe? Or is the area that you have worked on pretty flat so you don't notice it?
Also, do you have problems loading and unloading the tractor unto a trailer?

Mazurrj, Tom, and Mike thanks.
I believe Kubota has corrected the cylinders by going from a 29mm to a 33mm(?) bore. Most (not all) dealers are aware of the problem and will shim the hoe to prevent some of the previous problems.

I have included 2 new sketches with the latest info.

Thank you,
Rick

Rick,

Increasing the cylinder from 29mm to 33mm helped but I still bent the 33mm rod while digging roots for the second time. At least it did not crack in half like the 29mm, but naturally had to have the dealer replace it. I'm just saying you cannot just dig, expecially when up close on something and expect releif values to protect the hoe. a guy in same town as me went thru 3 of them before he learned, differnet dealer though. all the same cylinder. Not sure what shims you mentioned are.

Bob

 

[madslick]

Rick,

Increasing the cylinder from 29mm to 33mm helped but I still bent the 33mm rod while digging roots for the second time. At least it did not crack in half like the 29mm, but naturally had to have the dealer replace it. I'm just saying you cannot just dig, expecially when up close on something and expect releif values to protect the hoe. a guy in same town as me went thru 3 of them before he learned, differnet dealer though. all the same cylinder. Not sure what shims you mentioned are.

Bob

Thanks Vic, and thanks Bob.
The "shims" were mentioned by my Kubota dealer. I don't really know where they were installing them.

Bob, anyone, can you describe what action normally causes the bent / broken dipperstick?


Here is my dilema:
Money wise: BH75 / BH80-x are about the same (+/- a few hundred)
The BH80 digs deeper and appears more rugged than BH75.
But the BH80-x on a B3030 greatly reduces the ground clearance and it sticks out a lot.

Ha ha ha, it seems I/we can't have it all.

Thank you,
Rick

 

[bandit67]

Aside from mazzurj's recent post, I haven't read of anyone else having any more problems since 2006 when the cylinders were upgraded. I wonder if Kubota has also made additional design changes, including to the relief valves.

Here's a video of the dipper cylinder bending from back in 2005. It seems to take 30 seconds to a minute to load.

http://web.utk.edu/~hines/tractor/backhoe.mpg

The video came from a TBN'er named Volnavy. Here's the original thread talking about 3 broken cylinders:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...5-piston-broke-twice-design-7.html#post638135
He posted this thread a couple months later and all was well with his new BH75:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...332-l3400-hst-50-hour-service.html#post685242

 

[mazurrj]

The dipper cylinder is the problem. The further the rod is out of the cylinder you cannot pull up with the biggest arm. If you have you're bucket wrapped around a root and then try and raise with the main arm on the hoe it causes a lot of stress on that extended dipper rod if it is out of the cylinder. Only time it is out a lot is if you are up close to a object you are working on. So best to get further away so dipper rod is not as extended as far. then you can pull up. So really you can bend the dipper when you are actually working the biggest cylinder on the hoe. Its actually the one inside the main arm and lifts everything up. The releif values will not protect you all the time. Maybe its just some bad habit some of us have picked up. I try and curl the bucket to break roots mostly now.

 

[bandit67]

In the video, it looks like it may have been a combination of the curl and the boom cylinder putting too much pressure on the fully extended dipper cylinder. But the boom cylinder alone could bend the fully extended dipper cylinder if you were pulling up on something that wouldn't move, as mazurrj mentioned.

I'm certainly going to keep this in mind and keep from digging the tough stuff too close to the machine - better to take the extra 60 seconds to move the machine a bit, than have it down for a few days waiting for a new cylinder to arrive.

 

[madslick]

Here I go again...
If I'm going to spend a mini fortune for a Hoe, I better get the best Hoe for the money.
To recap, I've been debating very strongly between buying a BH75 (kubota) and a BH80-x (woods) backhoe for a B3030.
The BH75 sits very close to the B3030 plus has roughly 12" of clearance.

The BH80-x on a B3030 has about 7" of clearance plus it stick out a L O T...

What bothered me for a little while is the fact that the BH80/BH70-x sits very nicelly on a B7800 (the b7800 is very similar to the b3030) and it has a lot of ground clearance.

By comparing the 2 Backhoe brackets that connect the subframe to the actual backhoe, I found that the backhoe bracket for the B3030 drops down about 3" and it sticks out further back by an additional 3".

I then contacted one of the engineers at woods equipment and we discussed this issue for about 1hour.

After revieweing multiple Engineering photos, and discussing with the engineer why woods had dropped the hoe by so much, he came to the conclusion that the reason why Woods dropped and extended the hoe was to clear a piece of sheet metal which buttons up between the rear fenders of the B3030 (not there on the B7800)

The last comment I have is the possibility of cutting the backhoe mounting bracket and removing a 9" piece and rewelding the bracket. This would bring the hoe tighter into the tractor and it would raise it by4-5".

I used Photoshop to edit the picture and do the cutting on paper. I then used Orthographic scaling to come up with the new approximate dimensions.

Do you guys think it would be way too much work to cut, remove 9" of bracket and weld the 2 remaining pieces?
I think the steel is roughly 3/8" thick

As usual any comment is welcommed.
Thanks,
Rick

 

[bandit67]

I think any modification you make to the subframe would affect, if not void, the Woods 2 year backhoe warranty.

Here's how I see it. There are a ton of BH75s out there, on a number of different sized Kubota machines. Although there's no way to be sure, it is possible that there are more BH75s in use than BH80Xs. Yes, there have been some problems with the BH75 cylinders, but Kubota addressed them, and it would appear that the problems were limited to a small percentage of hoes. No one's posted about bending a cylinder since fall '06.

What I see from most, if not all of the posts, is that the owners of the BH75, BH70X, & BH80X are all pleased with their hoes. There are potential pros & cons to each one. Pick the one that meets more of your pros than cons, and go with it. It's the same thing with buying a tractor. You've got to pick the one that comes closest to what your idea of the perfect setup is.

I can tell you this - as far as a TLB setup, none of these potential combinations you're considering can compare to the B26. If a removable FEL and/or mid PTO is not a requirement, then maybe the B26 is one you should consider, as it's got everything and then some of what you seem to be looking for in a TLB.

 

[hazmat]

I have a B3030 with the BH80-X. I've never noticed a clearance issue. My land isn't all that rough & I don't trailer the machine.

If the machine is for personal use, you know your land & where to be careful. If for commercial use perhaps the 75 is the way to go.

I can't recall anyone having an issue re the clearance on the BH80-X. I think you are stuck in "analysis paralysis" - either hoe will work, the BH80-X is a little stronger and offers the "better" thumb solution. Also there is more room on the operator platform on the 80-X if you are a bigger guy. I certainly wouldn't modify the subframe for more clearance.

 

[stimpee]

Is there a price difference between the two?

 

[madslick]

I have a B3030 with the BH80-X. I've never noticed a clearance issue. My land isn't all that rough & I don't trailer the machine.

If the machine is for personal use, you know your land & where to be careful. If for commercial use perhaps the 75 is the way to go.

I can't recall anyone having an issue re the clearance on the BH80-X. I think you are stuck in "analysis paralysis" - either hoe will work, the BH80-X is a little stronger and offers the "better" thumb solution. Also there is more room on the operator platform on the 80-X if you are a bigger guy. I certainly wouldn't modify the subframe for more clearance.

"analysis paralysis"
I think you are right - the difference in price is very small, and each one has their pros and cons.
I just wish someone would come out and say "such and such hoe sucks because of blah blah blah..."
That would really help me decide.

Ha ha ha
I've contacted my dealer, and he has both in stock with the corresponding subframes.

Thank you for your comments so far!

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