battery charger on timer?

   / battery charger on timer? #11  
shaley said:
The absolute best device I have ever found for prolonging battery life is the Shumacher maintainer/charger. Mounts directy on to the tractor and plugs in like the block heater.
.......I allways install a battery maintainer. I have several of these Shumachers for my land craft and they use to be about $20 at Wally World. You can connect the male end of a cig lighter plug to the maintainer and then just plug it in to the cig lighter socket on the tractor if you want it keep it portable.
SE-1-12S - 1.5 amp Battery Charger
I have a couple of maintainer that I also bought at Wal-Mart. One has been on my 100kw backup generator for 5 years. I put it on after my generator didn’t come on one Monday like it should have. The ones I have aren't Shumacher; I think that they are Black and Decker. Anyway, they come with a wiring harness that connects to the battery. The harness has an electrical connector in line so that it can stay hooked to the battery. You can leave the connector hang out from under the sheet metal and just plug it in when you park the tractor. My generator supplier installs a maintainer with every stand alone generator that they sell.
 
   / battery charger on timer? #12  
Maintainer charger the way to go; you place it in a good location on tractor ( mine sits on top of battery with double back tape supplied by charger company) I used ring terminals to connect it to battery. When you park the tractor you plug it in and you never have to worry about the battery. I leave it plugged in till tractor is running, then I unplug and go.
 
   / battery charger on timer? #13  
The battery maintainer type trickle chargers don't need to be switched on and off with a timer. They have a "float" function. Shumacher was mentioned. I have one. I also have several from HF for under $10 each and they work just as well. They do not go too high in voltage where they would "boil off" electrolyte.

A plain Jane diode and XFMR can overcharge as most 12 volt transformers (typically designed to put out 12.6 volts under a large fraction of their design current) puts out more voltage as the current drops such as when the battery is charged. Even with 12.6 volts RMS output the peak voltage in the waveform of typical 12.6 volt power trasformer is about 17.8 volts. This will, over time, boil off your electrolyte.

The cheap HF maintainers (and their more expensive bretheren) will hold the batt at no more than about 14.2 VDC at most and that is a very good float voltage.

Again, no timer required. These things are quite low current draw, like on the order of a small fraction of an amp (maybe 1/10th.) A single or dual timer approach will help prevent overcharging by a more robust charger but you can buy a maintainer at HF for less than many timers and certainly two.

These maintainers are not intended to charge a discharged batt, just keep a fairly well charged batt at or near full charge. I have two batts for my electric fence, one on duty and one on a maintaineer for a couple months waiting its turn. I also use maintainers on all our vehicles some of the time (except Prius and tractor)

I got over 5 years of excellent service from the OEM batt on the Kubota, never a hard to start or wouldn't crank well situation till it finally it suddenly got a bit lazy and got replaced. Changing batts, even yearly, will not guarantee against batt failure but will waste $.

For the marginal reduction in the chance of a disrupted schedule I'd get for changing batts every two years, I'd just as soon suffer a small hassle every 5-7 years and have the extra $ in my pocket. If you have a load tester, you could test the batt every so many months and replace it when the performance fell down (before cold weather starting performance would be seriously compromised) and reduce the chance you'd be inconvenienced by batt failure while simultaneously using all the good out of the batt and not tossing out a lot of unused performance on a gegular schedule.

Load testers are available at HF and auto parts stores and catalogs. A good tester (at least a 100 amp model) costs less than a battery and would eventually pay for itself in saving you from throwing out good batteries. It would likely save you the inconvenience of an unsuspected incipient batt failure. No matter what testing or replacement philosophy you follow, batts can just fail for no easily known reason so no philosophy will prevent all potential inconveniences of a dead batt.

Humor... sort of... When in the USAF and not rolling in $ but statioined in Minot ND where batts were a concern, especially in winter, some of us built simple batt chargers. One simple circuit is a 120VAC extension cord wiht the female end cut off. You wire a lamp socket in series with a full wave bridge (a single dioide will work OK too and give 1/2 the charge rate) and put some BIG aligator clips on the ends of the wires. You have to remember to attach the clips to the batt before you plug in as there is 120volts available if you touch anything. The higher the wattage of light bulb you put in the lamp socket the more charging current you get. To a fair approximation you get about an amp per 100 watts. If you use a reflector flood the heat of the light helps keep the batt warm. This is not a highly sophisticated setup. It is not well requlated and if left connected for long periods (several days) can overcharge the batt. We typically used it overnight.

Pat
 
   / battery charger on timer? #15  
Allan, I have to try gloves on. At HF many of their gloves have the fingers too short even if the rest of the glove will let my fairly large hands fit inside. Still, I have sometimes found gloves that fit and worked well for me at HF.

I have 3 of their maintainers and they work as well for me as the Shumacher and for way less $.

If you park your tractor where getting electricity is not convenient then you can get a small solar panel to keep your batt topped off. I have done this with my Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins diesel rig before. It has 2 each 100 AH batts in parallel and can keep those batts topped off with a flexible solar panel I have that is about 2 ft long and 9-10 inches wide. If the truck is parked out where the sun hits the dash I lay the panel there. If I use the sun shield to protect the dash then the panel goes beteween that and the windshield. Just park facing south!

My dual zone radar type alarm system is a current hog and over time will run the starting batteries down. The solar panel elliminates that problem when parked out and a maintainer fixes the problem when parked indoors with electricity.

Pat
 
   / battery charger on timer? #16  
patrick_g said:
.......I got over 5 years of excellent service from the OEM batt on the Kubota, never a hard to start or wouldn't crank well situation till it finally it suddenly got a bit lazy and got replaced. Changing batts, even yearly, will not guarantee against batt failure but will waste $.

For the marginal reduction in the chance of a disrupted schedule I'd get for changing batts every two years, I'd just as soon suffer a small hassle every 5-7 years and have the extra $ in my pocket. If you have a load tester, you could test the batt every so many months and replace it when the performance fell down (before cold weather starting performance would be seriously compromised) and reduce the chance you'd be inconvenienced by batt failure while simultaneously using all the good out of the batt and not tossing out a lot of unused performance on a gegular schedule........



Pat


Pat,


There are no guarantees a new battery will not fail. But the odds are FAR less of it failing or “get a bit lazy” than a 5 year old battery.


As for wasting $, that is a matter of opinion. To me, I would much prefer to change my battery every two years on some nice cool summer evening while sipping on a cool one than to have to EVER have to change it in the dark when it is -15F with the wind blowing. Even if it is going to cost me 50 bucks a year versus 20 buck a year.


Yes I could test the battery a few times a year, but that also adds to the equation. My time is worth something. I started rotating batteries back in my boating days. I use to love pulling away from the dock watching others trying to get started because of weak batteries. For me it is cheap insurance. And has yet to let me down.:D


Gary
 
   / battery charger on timer? #17  
patrick_g said:
A plain Jane diode and XFMR can overcharge as most 12 volt transformers (typically designed to put out 12.6 volts under a large fraction of their design current) puts out more voltage as the current drops such as when the battery is charged. Even with 12.6 volts RMS output the peak voltage in the waveform of typical 12.6 volt power trasformer is about 17.8 volts. This will, over time, boil off your electrolyte.

FWIW my comment about the plane jane diode/xformer charger was to be taken in context that it was to be used on a time limited basis. Observing the amp gauge on the charger will be a good rule of thumb indicator as to battery charge status. Similarly, a volt meter can be used to check the charge level.

I would not advocate leaving a 'generic' battery charger hooke dup for longer than needed to sufficiently top off or charge a battery... etc... that would include low amperage and 'trickle' based chargers.

Soundugy
 
   / battery charger on timer? #18  
Gary, I absolutely agree a series of new batts every other year is less likely to fail than a 5-7 year old one. If you pay $80 for a batt you pay $40/yr and I paid $16. I was not inconvenienced any more the once in 5 years than each individual change out you do every other year. A battery check can be completed so fast it is hard to amortize the cost for purposes of this discussioni. Checking electrolyte levels every so often takes as much or more time than a load test. If you buy maint free you save some hassle at the expense of needing more frequent changes.

I don't know what you credit yourself per hour when messing around tractors but how much do you value 5-10 min every couple months or so. If surely isn't close to $120 is it? In 5 years you spend $200 for batts and I spend $80 (to a rough approx) I bet I don't take longer with periodic load tests (so I don't have unpredicted failures too often.) than you spend in swaping out the batts more frequeltly. Of course at your frequency of batt changes you get a lot more practice than I do and can probably meet NASCAR pit stop standards. But then I am practiced at load testing and it would never take me even 5 min.

I'll admit I spend as much time load testing as you do swapping batts averaged to a yearly bassis. Still I am $120 ahead and even with a new batt you can get a failure that the load test might see coming.

Nothing wrong with your arrangement if it pleases you. I'm happy with my arrangement. I'm happy, your happy, what could be better?

Pat
 
   / battery charger on timer? #19  
GaryE said:
Pat,
As for wasting $, that is a matter of opinion. To me, I would much prefer to change my battery every two years on some nice cool summer evening while sipping on a cool one than to have to EVER have to change it in the dark when it is -15F with the wind blowing. Even if it is going to cost me 50 bucks a year versus 20 buck a year. Gary

That's a good plan. Kind like with fuel filters.. you can either change them based on set hurs or months.. or you can push them till the plug.. the difference is you may get another month or few more hours down the road.. however.. you may be changing the fuel filter on the side of that road instead of setting home eating dinner.

I usually take 'notice' on a battery at it's first 'weak' start... I watch it very closely at that point. if there was a reason.. like.. it sat for a long time.. or a draw.. like a radio.. or dirty terminals* etc.. i may dismiss it if it does not occur again.. However.. if it does it again.. or the * terminals corode up often ( outgassing - due to high charge rate usually means a battery going south ).. I repalce it.

I'm currently 'observing' my ford 5000 battery. it is only 2 ys old.. however.. it made a weak start last week.. It may be due to little use.. so i am giving it the benefit of the doubt. It got a good chance to charge last night during the hay ride.. so we will see if it is ok... if not.. I'm replacing her before the summer 'workin' season.

Soundguy
 
   / battery charger on timer? #20  
I tend to basically disagree that an amp meter or voltmeter as typically employed by the average joe will show you the danger of too long of a charger session. The killer effect is the peak voltage in the waveform of the plain Jane charger.

Even though average current or average voltage is not showing too high a level so as to indicate overdoing it, the voltage peaks will tend to boil off electrolyte.

I agree completely that for a short session (not days on end) the old fashion or simple DIY charger is likely fine. The dual timer arrangement mentioned before was a clever self defense move against the vagaries of the old fashion charger.

Most new chargers of decent design go into a float condition after the heavy lifting has been completed and are safe for longer sessions without needing a timer.

On another but related note. Lets say you buy a solar panel that will make a few amps in bright sun. It is sold for use in 12VDC batt charging applications. You hook it up and aim it south and up at a 45 degree angle and walk away a happy camper. Later you measure the voltage and it is 14.2 (Hooray!) and you even use an amp clamp or open the ckt and insert an amp meter and see only a several hundred miliamps (Again Hooray!)

Then months later you find the battery electrolyte mostly gone and the battery ruined, WHY?? Most solar panels for 12 volt nominal service put out at least 20 volts or more. Without a charge controller (active circuitry) the panel doesn't quit charging at 14.2 vdc or so, it just slows down some.

Most small solar panels sold for putting on your dash or whatever and plugging into your lighter outlet do not come with controllers. If they are small enough in area and thus output they may never cause a problem but if you get a larger panel with some umph and don't use a controller it can overcharge and damage the batt over time.

IF you have an old fashion charger, using it with a timer may be a safer approach but getting a modern charger with tapered charge and float is a better idea. They often have a switch to select deep cycle or starter service batt.

Pat
 
 
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