Calling on Ford 8n experts here - questions
- Thread starter bland
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Higgy - what are you saying here - that you think the hydraulics work better with hyd oil or 134D rather than the 90 wt GL-1? Or are you saying that just don't get 90 wt hypoid oil and that the 90 wt gl-1 is thinner than 90 wt hypoid?
Just a newby here with lots of questions.
Just a newby here with lots of questions.
higgy
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Bland,
I went to my ford dealer yesterday to buy some cycle teeth and I talked with them on this subject.
They use 80-90 mineral oil which is call M1103 and it is made by AGCO for older massys i.e. the TO line. This oil would be of a consistency of maple syrup, not as thick as we think of as 90 in a hypoid oil.
As soundguy correctly pointed out many of the hypoid oils have an XP extreme pressure additive. This additive will attack copper, you do not want this.
Soundguy has given you very good advice, on this end my ford dealer and my AGCO dealer both stock this oil.
What I was trying to say, and not doing a good job is that the M1103 is thinner looking than what we think of as 90 wt.
When we re-did the hydraulics in some older TOs and 8 and 9 Ns and went back to this oil they worked much better.
Soundguy is truly a great resource on these tractors. He will give you the good stuff.
Dane
I went to my ford dealer yesterday to buy some cycle teeth and I talked with them on this subject.
They use 80-90 mineral oil which is call M1103 and it is made by AGCO for older massys i.e. the TO line. This oil would be of a consistency of maple syrup, not as thick as we think of as 90 in a hypoid oil.
As soundguy correctly pointed out many of the hypoid oils have an XP extreme pressure additive. This additive will attack copper, you do not want this.
Soundguy has given you very good advice, on this end my ford dealer and my AGCO dealer both stock this oil.
What I was trying to say, and not doing a good job is that the M1103 is thinner looking than what we think of as 90 wt.
When we re-did the hydraulics in some older TOs and 8 and 9 Ns and went back to this oil they worked much better.
Soundguy is truly a great resource on these tractors. He will give you the good stuff.
Dane
Thanks again. Having worked in the field I am I have dealt with lubrication for many years. It is a shame that all manufacturers and suppliers can't just use the same viscosity ratings. I well realize that generally gear oils are rated differently than engine oils and most tranny fluids and hydraulic fluids actually use a different system yet. I can vouch for the fact that 80 wt gear oil is pretty close to 20-30 wt engine oil. And the hydraulic fluids that we use come with numbers like 32 and 68 being the most common. These come close to 10w and 20w in oils. If you can find a Chart on any oil listing the ssu viscosity at various temperatues, you can more nearly compare them. I will continue to find some for my ford.
higgy
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If you can't let me know and I can ship some to you.
Dane
Dane
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( but it is not what most think is 90. I hope that )</font>
The 90wt mineral oil for the fords is more like a 50w motor oil.. if that is what you are asking..
Soundguy
The 90wt mineral oil for the fords is more like a 50w motor oil.. if that is what you are asking..
Soundguy
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( that you think the hydraulics work better with hyd oil )</font>
Running hyd oil in the common tranny/hyd/rear end sump on an N would be a timelt death for the rear end gears...
Soundguy
Running hyd oil in the common tranny/hyd/rear end sump on an N would be a timelt death for the rear end gears...
Soundguy
Got some search time in yesterday. Found several brands of gl-1 90 wt. and found several hydra/trans fluids stated to match the 134D. My next delema is that it is almost winter here and the next tasks required of my 8n will probably be keeping the drive clear. This will be at between 0 and 25 F. All recommendations I find state 80 wt below 32 and 90 wt does seem pretty heavy for hydraulics at 0. My Pennzoil rep recommended their hydra-tranz which he said is their 134D equivalent. They do have a 80-90 gl-1 but would have to order through work, no one local stocks it. It still has ratings equivalent to 90wt though. Pennzoil actually publishes all the ratings figures on their products. Listing all different viscosity rating methods. Another quick one - Is there any rule of thumb so to speak to measure if the hydraulics are lifting as high as they should be. I thought maybe someone could tell me for instance how high the pin holes in the end of the 3point arms at attachment points are when raised to the highest position. It seems to me that mine might not be going as high as they could be. They seem to work fine with the exception of leaking down too quickly when shut off. They will raise and lower properly and hold any set height when pump is running. Thanks again.
Soundguy
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Thinner oil giver you better cold weather speed on the lift. However.. if your lift cylinder is scored.. the thinner oil will make the drift down worse.
If your arms aren't coming up to full height ( off hand I don't know what it is ). there is a jig you can get to adjust it. Also.. many times it cannot be adjusted due to a 50 cent cam follower pin being worn down. The same fellow that sells the jig and the directions will give you the pin if you ask for it when ordering.
Also.. if you do pull the lift cover to replace the pin, do yourself a favor and get the naa piston and oring, anbd backup washer... thats 20.25 from an online store.. plus the top cover gasket. You can use a brake cylinder hone to smooth out the scoring in the lift cylinder.
( zane sherman is the fellow with the jig.. you can get in touch with him at:
wzsherman@aol.com
If your pressure relief valve leaks. it is about 25 bucks new.
Soundguy
If your arms aren't coming up to full height ( off hand I don't know what it is ). there is a jig you can get to adjust it. Also.. many times it cannot be adjusted due to a 50 cent cam follower pin being worn down. The same fellow that sells the jig and the directions will give you the pin if you ask for it when ordering.
Also.. if you do pull the lift cover to replace the pin, do yourself a favor and get the naa piston and oring, anbd backup washer... thats 20.25 from an online store.. plus the top cover gasket. You can use a brake cylinder hone to smooth out the scoring in the lift cylinder.
( zane sherman is the fellow with the jig.. you can get in touch with him at:
wzsherman@aol.com
If your pressure relief valve leaks. it is about 25 bucks new.
Soundguy
higgy
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Sorry been out of town on a job.
You are correct, if you used hyd oil for rear end lube it would not work.
The M1103 is specifically formulated for the common area of tranny, hyd and rear end lubrication for these tractors. What I was trying to say and not doing a good job of is:
When looking at M1103 or other replacement oils for this application they do not appear to be 90wt, as most people think of 90wt hypoid as a reference.
These all.
As you pointed out there are many other things that can contribute to hyd systems not running as they should.
The system are easy to work on and installing a new piston and rings after honing the lift cylinder is a very easy job and can be done in a matter of an hour or so.
Thanks for the link to the jig that will save a lot of trial and error when setting up a new system.
Dane
You are correct, if you used hyd oil for rear end lube it would not work.
The M1103 is specifically formulated for the common area of tranny, hyd and rear end lubrication for these tractors. What I was trying to say and not doing a good job of is:
When looking at M1103 or other replacement oils for this application they do not appear to be 90wt, as most people think of 90wt hypoid as a reference.
These all.
As you pointed out there are many other things that can contribute to hyd systems not running as they should.
The system are easy to work on and installing a new piston and rings after honing the lift cylinder is a very easy job and can be done in a matter of an hour or so.
Thanks for the link to the jig that will save a lot of trial and error when setting up a new system.
Dane