CG differences and handling side grade

   / CG differences and handling side grade #1  

ChesapeakeBoy

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
70
Location
NE Iowa
Tractor
2015 Kubota MX4800
I just purchased a Kubota MX6000 Cab. I replaced my Kubota MX4800 with this. The cab adds about 500#.. I am not sure if the cab model is stiffer, or if the cab makes it stiffer. I bush hogged my pasture the first day. The pasture is NOT flat. I am not sure if it is me or reality... I would think the 6000cab would have a little higher CG, but is it just me, or should both machines be able to handle the same grades? The reason that I am asking is that I mow 50 yards of ditch... I haven't done it yet, but the grass is growing! LOL Both machines have/had fluid in the rear tires... R4. IMG_20200605_154328940.jpg
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade #2  
Yes the CG is some higher. Probably half of that 500 lbs is above where 4800 CG was

I don’t think it will make much difference

Do you have a tire difference?

Andy
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Same tires, width, etc...

It just feels tippy to me... might be just me....
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade #4  
Of course it raises the total c.g of the tractor, by quite a bit actually. Without the cab, the c.g is probably about at the crankshaft centerline. The cab adds a 500# mass to the base tractor weight at a height probably around waist/seat height. So the change is quite large from a mass a foot or more above the cabless tractor's location.

Plus, the cab adds quite a bit of roll inertia to the tractor, so the roll frequency is lower, presuming the same tire pressures are used. The rear tire vertical spring rates determine the roll spring rate.

So, raise the rear tire pressures to stiffen the roll to reduce that quezzy feeling. But, the C.G. is still higher, so stability is reduced. Widen the rear track (move wheels outward) to reduce the chance of a rollover on a sidehill.

You can measure the static rollover point several ways. Tilting table for 1 and some scales under each wheel as a second option. Pull it from the roll bar hoop with a winch and measure the scale load changes and the amount of roll. From this, you can make a plot and predict what the rollover angle would be [where the outside scale weights would be zero.]. That doesn't take into account any dynamic inputs (throttle, brake, driver position, and steering changes that will occur as a rollover develops, but you said you just wanted to compare 1 tractor with another.
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade #5  
All above true. The best thing to do (if you have a way to do it) is to move the rear tires further apart. That will overwhelm all other factors. Friends of mine run a cab style 6040 and they use 6" wheel spacers on each side which made it much better. Said they would not run it on hillsides without the spacers.

I doubt you need to do anything complicated, esp since you have cut the same places before. Just don't hit any low spot or hole on the downhill side. But you know that.
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade #6  
On a smaller scale, I had a b2200 with a cab that felt tippy on a small hill. I removed the cab, a Curtis, and it seemed much less tippy. Maybe it was just me but the cab made me less secure and the cab maybe weighed 100 pounds.
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade
  • Thread Starter
#7  
My rear tires are set at 55" on center... I think I will be adjusting to 57 or 61 1/2"... and obviously... I will not be removing the cab, lol
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade #8  
My rear tires are set at 55" on center... I think I will be adjusting to 57 or 61 1/2"... and obviously... I will not be removing the cab, lol

The spacing needed varies a lot depending on the size and structure of the tractor. I could define a measure of tipping difficulty involving the height of the c.g. above the ground and the width of the rear tire outer edges from the center. Probably an angle which none of us would ever get measured right and none of us could remember. Maybe there ought to be such a spec on tractors??

I'm thinking about 37 degrees (which corresponds to 3ft high --ground to c.g. and 4ft outward -- center to edge of tire) is a pretty stable tractor very resistant to rollover. It's all about margin and tolerance and uneveness of the surface, etc. Gets very subjective of course.

Anyway my MF 2660 low profile weighs about 9000 lbs with loader etc. usually on it and I keep my rear tires 8ft apart at the outer edges. Whatever geometry that is makes it very stable and comfy on steeper ground than I'm going to be on on purpose. The rears will go out a few more inches each side but then it would not fit a trailer for hauling and I don't need it any wider. It's just right for me but I'd be real curious what a Kubota M5 or M6 owner would say.
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade #9  
Set the rear wheeels wider, you will be surprised by the difference.
 
   / CG differences and handling side grade
  • Thread Starter
#10  
So, I think I will set the wheels wider. The problem that I have is that my trailer has side rails... and I barely can get the tractor on it right now. I need a bigger trailer, but that will have to wait.
 
 
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