CHAINSAW ADVICE NEEDED

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> Here's the pic of the raker gauge.

With these two basic tools, plus a file for the cutter and a raker file, you can sharpen any saw so that it will cut better than a new chain fresh out of the box.

Also highly recommended:

A good file holder

Magnetic aluminum/rubber vise jaws


And for bar maintenance:

10" mill file

Pferd bar edge sharpener/truer-upper (see Sherrill online catalog - page 3 of chainsaw accessories). 22 bucks, and well worth it. Bar rails MUST be even in height, or your saw will cut really badly.
</font>

The raker gauge has two settings - "hard" and "soft", referring to hard wood or soft wood. Cutting in soft wood is faster with the rakers a little lower, but I never bother to set the rakers to the "soft" setting since we never know what we'll be cutting on any given day, and the "hard" setting does just fine in soft woods. If you lived somewhere where there was nothing but soft wood, I could definitely see setting the rakers to the "soft" setting.

Where I do use the "soft" setting is when I'm taking the rakers down on .325 chain. For whatever reason, the "hard" setting leaves them way too high, as measured with a feeler gauge. The "soft" setting gets them just right, about .025".

I also like to use a 5/32" file on most .325 chain, as opposed to the usually recommended 4.5 mm (11/64"), and FORGET using 4.8 mm (3/16"). The amount of "hook" that you get with a 5/32" file, with properly set rakers, will turn your .325-equipped saw into a beast with an attitude. I guarantee you will be quite surprised at the performance, or at the very least, quite pleased. Some .325 chain does "want" the 4.5 mm file - Stihl maybe? Just try the two sizes and see which one seems to work best for your chain - the rule of thumb is that about 1/5 of the file should be above the top plate of the cutter. You don't want too much "hook", or for the file to be just barely above the top plate of the cutter.

If this all sounds complicated, it's not. Once you determine which file is best for your chain, these two jigs make sharpening a saw so easy you'll be amazed. I'd go so far as to say that it really doesn't take much practice at all - these two jigs do the hard part for you. All you have to do is push the file straight, like you're stroking a cue ball with a pool cue. Very easy, and very satisfying. Once you've learned this method, your saws will cut as well as they possibly can cut, and you'll be way ahead of many of the professionals out there.

Good luck, and cut safe,

John

 

[Cottonhawk]

Thanks John, Kubotafan, and art.
I did order the sharpening stuff (John's suggestion) from Sherrill. I used the 800 # from one of John's post and the lady answer the phone was very pleasant and nice. I ordered one of everything on the suggested list for each saw. I also bought a 'green' laser pointer. My Shindaiwa 488 is a .325, Echo CS300, power pruner, is a 3/8" low profile. My Stihl telescope pruner I think is also 3/8" low profile.
My new MS361 has a 24" bar with full chisel 3/8" chain. My Stihl dealer and I did have a little discussion regarding the 24" bar as I remember that on the Stihl web site it recomanded 20" bar and John has it even shorter. My dealer suggested that the 24" bar is the most popular length for pros around here in the Northwest forest and works very well. He also thinks that I already have a very good 20" chainsaw (Shindaiwa) and the MS 361 can do bigger stuff faster with longer chain.
Btw after flood the MS361, I left it on the cold cement floor for about one hour and tried again by following the procedures and it worked....VROOOOM....sure was impressive.

 

[arthr31]

John,
Thanks for the great advice here! -art

 

[zapper]

Another Thanks from me John. I've been one to keep several spare chains on hand so I can take them to someone else for sharpening. Not any more as I ordered the sharpening tools you suggested and I will learn to hand file. This has been a vey informative thread for me.

 

[billbill1]

I ordered all of the stuff too John, thanks for the help. I have an 024 stihl saw, been a tough little brute. Ever heard of it? I've always filed my chains by hand but let a friend talk me into buying an electric sharpener from Harbor Freight, big mistake!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[3RRL]

Yup John,
Me too...just ordered all that stuff from them.
Thanks,

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

LOL Kubotafan, yeah I should get a cut, but this is all pro bono. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Better that way, give it more "creds". One of the hardest things to come by is an honest opinion, but especially from someone who's selling something to you. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

To all who have so kindly offered thanks for these tips, you're very welcome. Very little in this world gives me more pleasure than helping other people, and I'm always happy to share something that I've found to be very useful. As I've mentioned in another post, it took me years to stumble upon this system, and I just want to save everyone all those wasted years of sub-optimal chainsaw performance (and aggravation).

About chains:

They sure don't make it easy on you with all the different gauges <font color="blue"> ["gauge" = how wide is the slot in the bar](. </font> 043, .050, .058, .063", pitches <font color="blue"> [pitch is the distance between any three rivets, divided by two] </font> (1/4", .325", 3/8" low-profile, 3/8", .404"), cutter types (semi-chisel, full chisel, square-ground, ripping, others), cutter/drive link spacing (full comp, full skip, semi-skip, half-skip), and then of course, chain that is designed to somewhat reduce kickback as opposed to chain that has no built-in anti-kickback features.

Fortunately, it's really very simple. Most saws that any of us will ever deal with will be either:

<ul type="square"> Pitch: 3/8" low profile (small saws), .325 (medium saws) or 3/8" (larger saws). 1/4" is found only on the smallest of saws, and .404 is used only on monster saws like the Stihl 088/880, and mechanical harvesters or firewood processors.

Gauge: Oddly, the larger saws (3/8" pitch) and the smaller saws (3/8" low-rofile pitch) tend to use the narrower of the "common" gauges, .050". Most of the rest (usually .325" pitch) use .063" gauge, followed by the less-common .058.

Cutter type: Full chisel is what almost all professionals use on all but their climbing saws, which are almost always 3/8" low-profile semi-chisel. Some pro use square-ground full chisel, which does cut faster than round-ground full chisel. Some swear by it, most don't bother, myself included. Most mere mortals cannot sharpen square-ground by hand; it is most commonly sharpened on a very expensive grinder ($1,000 plus). Semi-chisel doesn't cut as fast as full-chisel, BUT, if you tend to abuse your chain by getting into the dirt, semi-chisel will keep cutting a little longer than a similarly abused full-chisel chain since the latter depends so much on a razor-sharp single point at the leading edge of the cutter, while the radiused leading edge of the semi-chisel is more forgiving. Bottom line: use full chisel when you can, and keep it out of the dirt.

Cutter/drive link spacing: Full comp is by far the most commonly used type. I believe "Full comp" is short for "full complement", meaning that the chain has a full complement of cutters; the chain is laid out "cutter/driver/cutter/driver ....". One of the greatest little secrets out there is that for longer bars, say 24" or longer, full-skip chain (cutter-driver-driver-cutter-driver-driver ...) "allows for better chip discharge and higher chain speed with more powerful saws and longer guide bars). It works great, with a noticeable difference in "pulling power" and cutting speed, but the real kicker is that there are so many fewer cutters to sharpen!! Talk about a free lunch, I love it. I use full-skip on my 066 when I run the 28" or 42" bar on it. [/list]

Lastly, reduced-kickback chain versus "regular" chain. Hmm, I 'm going to have to think about this. More to come.

****

Just to make chain selection easier, I would seriously recommend just ordering it from Bailey's. I use only oregon chain, so that really simplifies things.

For 3/8" chain, I use Oregon 72LGXX, where "72" denotes the gauge (73=.058. 75= .063), LG = full chisel with no anti-kickback provisions, and XX = the number of drive links. A 20" , 3/8 pitch. .050 gauge bar would take Oregon 72LG72.

For .325, I use the Oregon 35LGXX. Again, 35 denotes the gauge (.063). 33 = .050, and 34 = .058. Oregon .325 LG chain is a lower-profile chain than most other .325 chains, which reduces mass and vibration while allowing you to cut like a bandit. It does require the use of 5/32" files in my opinion.

Most 3/8 low-profile chain, for smaller saws, is called 91VS; again, 91VS40 would have 40 drive links and 20 cutters; I believe that .050 gauge is assumed, and to my knowledge there is no "92VS" or "93VS" to denote wider gauges.

*****

These two links have a lot of great information on both Stihl and Oregon chain. Stihl undoubtedly uses some of the most inscrutable terminology I have ever encountered to describe their chains. In short, "Rapid" means a full-sized (not low-profile) cutter, "Picco" = low-profile, "Super" = full chisel, and "Micro" = semi-chisel.

Stihl - chain info

Oregon - chain info

So .... 33 RS 60 ... according to Stihl's website, the first "3" = 3/8" pitch, the second "3" = .050 gauge (so far so good), the RS = Rapid Super (excellent, excellent) .... but the "60" doesn't make sense, and seems to indicate to me that it's for a 16" bar. An 18" bar would have 66 drive links, a 20", 72, and I think your 24" bar would have 84 drive links. Maybe they just put it in the wrong box?

Both Stihl's and Oregon's websites are excellent. Navigate away from either of those pages and you'll find an amazing amount of info on sharpening, maintenance, break-in, adjusting, cutter types, anti-kickback chains of all description, narrow kerf chain, carbide chain; info on pitches, gauges and specialty chains, and a whole bunch of other stuff, some incredibly useful, some you'll never need to know but might be interesting.

*****

I'm looking forward to hearing how you guys like the way your saws cut after being sharpened with the two-jig method. Just make sure that if it's full-chisel chain, that the entire top edge of the cutter is completely sharp, but especially the leading point. If the point has the least bit of dullness/shinyness to it, the saw will cut like ... well, it won't cut well. Make sure all the cutters are around the same length, take the rakers down to .025" (check with a straightedge and feeler gauge the first few times to check your handiwork), make sure the bar is in good shape, and you should be rockin'. Then keep it out of the dirt, and you can keep the saw razor-sharp with just 3-5 strokes with a fresh file when you sense that it is becoming "wood dull". Just take the rakers down after maybe 20 strokes worth; that might amount to about every four sharpenings or so, if you've managed to avoid dirt, rocks or metal.

Good luck, and as always, please be careful with those things,

John

 

[tposts]

Thank you for your sharing your wealth of knowledge with the rest of us.