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Thanks for all the help. I think since most of my time will be mowing, hydro-stat will be the best for me as stated. Yes, I will have a loader on it, I am getting into the 50 year old group shortly and I just don't see lifting what I used to in the picture at this age! I have never operated a hydro-stat ever, if I use a brush hog does the rear pto stay at the same speed regardless of engine speed or will it change as I increase the throttle and decrease as I decrease the throttle? How can I make sure it stays at or close to the 540 rpm range? Thanks again for the advice.

You need to try a hydrostatic before you commit to it based on advice here. Everything has to do with your personality. When I was tractor hunting, I had a Kubota treadle hydro delivered to my property to try out for an afternoon and I spent 4 hrs driving around the Mahindra 3016 hydro at the farm/dealership. I detested both. The screaming engine even at slow speeds to do work. The lack of grunt with the Mahindra and going against instinct of letting up on the peddle to develop power with the hydro just was not a fit for me. I made a conscious decision to choose the shuttle giving up the convenience of the hydro as a result. What I received with the gear, meant more to me than the convenience.

 

[Awsum67gto]

Ritchie, as recommended by Arrow, go test drive a tractor or, better yet, do what he did and get a tractor delivered for a trial period even if you have to pay the dealer a nominal fee to do it. You are going to invest in a high priced machine so get what is right for you.

As I have re-read this thread, I realize that a little more clarification may be in order. A hydro operates as follows:

Get on the tractor and crank the engine. It will idle at some low RPM. At this point, if you depress either the forward or reverse foot controls the tractor will move accordingly, but it will do so very slowly because you have no significant RPM. (Note: some tractors have a seesaw type foot control and others have separate forward and reverse foot controls.) Let off the pedal and on flat level ground the tractor will pretty much stop.

To cut grass, you set the tachometer to the RPM designated by the manufacturer to get 540 RPM at the PTO. Every tachometer that I have ever seen has what I will call a "tick mark" on the tach to show the engine speed that gets this PTO speed. The "downside" to this is you are now locked in to the engine speed at the "tick mark". If you increase or decrease engine RPM the PTO RPM will change correspondingly and you do not want that.

Engine speed is fixed at one spot, but ground speed will change as you change the pressure on the foot control. Somewhat like in an automatic car, less foot pressure makes the tractor go more slowly and more foot pressure makes the machine go faster, but since the engine RPM must be constant you can only go up to a maximum ground speed that matches the engine RPM. This is the difference between an automatic car and a hydro tractor.

Now, when you do other tasks like FEL work the same pricinples apply, but you are not bound to the RPM at the "tick mark". The RPM is based on your comfort level with your tractor, how it responds at a given engine speed and how heavy the workload is. You will require higher RPM than idle, but you probably do not need the same RPM as you did when you were cutting grass.

Before I bought my hydro Kubota I did not fully understand this, but then again I am not the sharpest pencil in the cup holder. Hope this helps.

 

[TOSA Ranch]

I have a Mahindra 3016 HST and it's great for almost everything. I've only run shuttle shift tractors before this one (my riding mower is HST but that doesn't count IMO). The short comings of HST is in the fine tuning of gear selection. The HST doesn't do well with heavy loads on the tractor in high and sometimes even medium range. Low range is very capable but at incredibly slow ground speed. Moderate hill climbing or digging with the FEL requires medium range and dragging heavy implements requires low range in order to keep the engine from bogging down.

With my old shuttle shift, I often could remain in the same range and down shift to get over a hill or run a heavier implement.

I love the ease of most work with my HST, am stoked to know I'll never need a clutch replacement and that's enough for me. Sometimes you have to go with what's best for most things since there just isn't a tractor that is the best for everything.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

 

[streamin]

I've owned 3 tractors, all hst. So I cant compare to a gear but I believe both have advantages and disads, which all seem to have been covered, I just hate having to deal with a clutch. If I need to stand up to creep and look at my bucket alignment, nothing beats a hst. I don't think that can be done with a clutch.The only thing that bothers me is the higher rpms required all the time, makes me feel like I'm burning more fuel than necessary, but a small trade off IMO.

 

[ritchieb]

Thanks for all the help once again. I have a feeling it will be a tough decision and as suggested it will take another visit to the dealer to compare the HST vs Shuttle. As pointed out I have a neighbor who mow's with a HST Kubota and it does get rather annoying hearing the whine of his tractor. I am mowing pretty much all out in the open with no obstacles so maybe the Shuttle will be ok for me as the loader time will be minimal and for the most part as an aid in lifting and hauling things and not so much dirt/gravel/loading work. I have "clutched" since I was 14 years old so I have developed a kinda routine in using a loader on a geared tractor. Any other comments or advice are welcomed, I sure appreciate them!

 

[DavesTractor]

ritchieb, the 28 shuttle does not have independent PTO, it is one of the few (maybe the only?) Mahindra models for which the travel speed is not independent of the PTO operation. So if you stop, so does your mower. An HST, by nature, has travel independent of the PTO. Since you have a Yanmar 1610D you are used to this sort of operation, but having a mower that stays spun up when you take your foot off the HST pedal and travel comes to a stop is nice. It is something worth considering. Also consider the Max24/25, they have the same engine as the Max28 (and the new Max26). They just rate them at a lower RPM to show the HP difference. A Max 25 is a powerhouse of a little tractor.

 

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I've owned 3 tractors, all hst. So I cant compare to a gear but I believe both have advantages and disads, which all seem to have been covered, I just hate having to deal with a clutch. If I need to stand up to creep and look at my bucket alignment, nothing beats a hst. I don't think that can be done with a clutch.The only thing that bothers me is the higher rpms required all the time, makes me feel like I'm burning more fuel than necessary, but a small trade off IMO.

No you can "creep" and stand up with a geared vehicle. You can do just as delicate stuff because low range 1st gear is pretty creepy.

 

[jhasafety1]

Test drive both, I bought the shuttle shift (geared) and glad I did. I think you will find you do more than you listed. I'm not recommending either way, I think it was said earlier it depends on the person.

 

[boggen]

things i hate about straight manual shifting, make it a regular truck, to a tractor....

when working on various projects and using FEL or 3pt hitch and working on a hill, or in/dirt muddy spots. and i want to barely move 1" forward or backwards....
trying to clutch, break, shift, turn, raise/lower FEL and/or curl bucket, give some throttle so ya don't kill engine/get over bump some. not really possible all at once, 2 feet, 2 hands, there is not another hand or foot to go around. at times not enough feet to go around when backing up to a trailer to hookup to.

when i am out mowing, i have various hills, and areas were grass is thicker / taller than other places. and the difference can be so much to the point that simply giving a little more throttle/gas will not work out. i need to jump down to a lower gear to get through the area. half the time i am on a hill. so as soon as i hit the clutch i am free wheeling down the hill, before i can even get the shifter moved over to next gear, let alone letting clutch out. and i just left a spot of grass i have to go back and re mow.
independt PTO and rear 3pt finish mower can help with above but...

there are various tranmissions out there, and controls for them "pedals to levers"

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a hydrostatic transmission, is a nice thing to have, i just wish more tractors would come with a "transmission temp gauge" and not simply a warning light if anything at all.
it can be much easier for new operators, to try drive at a much higher MPH, than what should be allowed, and causing the hyd oil to really take a beating in the friction department, causing oil temps to sky rocket, example if you try and lift to much with your FEL or backhoe. "relief valves kick in" so you do not go over the max pressure / lifting weight of the FEL and/or backhoe. same like doing of "relief valves" can be found in hydrostatic transmissions, but you can't hear them, you can't see them, and there is no sort of warning lights or gauges to go by :/ and that is were the hyd oil starts to over heat, and damage to seals, 0-rings and like start happening, let alone hyd oil / transmission oil taking a beat due to over heating.

other words unlike a straight manual transmission. instead of the engine bogging down to point you might stall the engine out in case you are in a wrong gear. the pressure relief valves inside the hydrostatic transmission might kick in. and not have any effect on the engine bogging down to point engine stalls out. but the operator of the tractor may never know, and nothing for the operator to go by. so novice to pro's alike are at a guessing game. until finally hopefully a warning light comes on for over temp transmission, given you notice you might have been operating in to high of a gear position.

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just stating "shuttle shift" is a bad thing, having a ""fully synced"" transmission. is the key. so you can go straight through to the next gear (up or down) quickly and easily, and hopefully by just pressing a simple joystick button on the gear shifter, and moving right into the next gear. and then for actual shuttle shifting another joystick button, on the shuttle shiftier itself. HST style pedals (rocker style pedals) it may mean just rocking the pedal forward or backwards vs using a shutle shift lever and joystick button on the lever.

the issue with above, you may not find SCUTS (sub compact utility tractors) and CUTS (compact utility tractors) that are fully synced transmission. and use "shuttle shift" as a marketing ploy. without telling you transmission is not a fully synced transmission. resulting in a straight manual transmission.

i mention joystick button above, some have a cable linkage from button down to location on transmission to engage / disengage clutch. while this is fine and dandy, the cables and linkages may need to be adjusted over time. and/or the button might seem hard to push or simply release. a joy stick button will have wires ran to a solenoid at transmission with a short linkage if not mounted directly onto the transmission itself. (most likely costs more doing this way) and for SCUTS and lower end CUTS. it is easier to do this with cable and linkages to come out cheaper for manufacture. but when ya get into larger tractors, and distances between operator and transmission happens, most likely the joystick button and solenoid come into play to make things cheaper / easier to install / manufacture and you start getting into joystick buttons vs cables and linkages.

 

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Wow Ryan, you bring new light to tractor shifting. I am trying to assess comparisons on my property hill wise because I haven't confronted the problems you associate to a geared tractor. I do have a long hill at maybe a 50% incline but never have I "rolled back" in between shifting. I always brake when clutching on this type of terrain. I'm wondering if tractor size has something to do with this where more weight on a larger tractor would initiate more inertial forces?. Not sure but it does bring to light what I have been saying all along about "variables" with all the questions people ask here for trying to get comparisons. Whether the question comes to "what size tractor should I get?" or "should i get industrials or ags?" "whada ya think about hydros over geared?". That's why it's important for everyone to bring to light their particular experiences as it begins to divulge "particulars" to help the op making decisions.