Construction of Laminated posts for Pole Barn

[SteveBenson]

>I'm not sure I agree that the continuity is important provided that the building is braced adequately. I am currently in the middle of a pole barn project (I'll post pictures soon).

Continuity is extremely important if the post or beam is going to be loaded to a full working load. Morton's posts are over-designed so they can get away with the weaker splicing.

A properly braced building still needs to handle significant wind loads. Proper bracing just distributes the load more evenly (away form the base of the post).

>Now I will say that if I wasn't using the T&G sides (which add alot of stability) I would install diagonal metal bracing all the way across each and every wall.

Me too, and on the roof as well /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[varmint]

This is a great discussion! I don't have anything new to add, but I'd like to mention a couple of relevant items. About 4 years ago, when we put up a shop, I weighed stick built vs. pole building, and wound up going with a Morton pole building for several considered reasons. As a semi-retired architect, a guy who likes to build things, and understand what and why, I made the Morton decision in part for these reasons: They use treated 2 x boards because they feel that the 2 x accepts treating chemical into the center, whereas the 6 x 6 doesn't. They simply use stainless steel ringshank spikes to fasten, and pour some bags of concrete into the holes around the posts. They have staggered lap joints, maybe 3-4' above grade, where regular 2 x's are joined. Other than that, their buildings have no special bracing compared to any other technique. Sheer bracing is created by the frame's structure, not the cladding, so pay attention to that. Of course, Morton uses quality materials and finishes, with no shortcuts I could see, but I'm not trying to promote them (too much, anyway). The various glues, laminated lumber beams, galvanized fasteners, etc. that have been considered may be fine, depending upon your soil conditions, but they wouldn't be recommended by anyone who would be responsible for their long-term performance. Who knows what termites might find tasty? Better to do it right, once, unless you know you only need a short service life out of your project.

 

[SteveBenson]

>The various glues, laminated lumber beams, galvanized fasteners, etc. that have been considered may be fine, depending upon your soil conditions, but they wouldn't be recommended by anyone who would be responsible for their long-term performance.

The Glu-lam posts are guaranteed for 50 years. I don't think Morton warantee is as good as that. I would go with the engineering out of a glu-lam manufacturing plant than Morton any day. I've seen many morton buildings in this area, they are well built and overdesigned. That doesn't mean they are the only good solution, or the best.

 

[varmint]

Steve: I don't recall ever seeing glulam products rated for ground contact... In fact, the last time I used them, admittedly 10+ years ago, they had very specific instructions for preventing standing water situations... Exterior, fine, but in the ground? Do you know something I don't?

 

[SteveBenson]

Glu-lam Posts

 

[MarkV]

Varmit, I also agree that this has been a great discussion. One of the nicest things about this forum is we have such a diverse amount of talent here willing to share opinions.

I believe that Steve is referring to a new generation of glu-lams that can be purchased fully pressure treated or treated on a section of the bottom that will be buried. They are not readily available that I know of in my area but seem to be standard fair in other areas. I also agree that a factory laminated post that was pressure treated sure would be the strongest system we have talked about. Looking on the Morton web site they are not showing a bolted splice joint any longer and it has me wondering if they no longer use that system.

I don't question that all of the opinions here have been accurate as to how they relate to proper engineering. It has also been my experience that any construction project can be built at different levels of perfection depending on the needs of the area and the desires of the people building. For example, we could be building the same barn with steel I beam and steel roof trusses and I think it would outlast any loads or years better than the glu-lams. Of course I also feel that would be over engineering the project we are discussing. My father-in-law has a 60x80 open sided barn with 14' high side walls that was built on site built posts and has been standing for 35 years. I know it has survived 2 indirect tornado hits and several remnants of hurricanes over the years.

As with any building the region the building is built has to come into the equation when practices are considered. Areas in California need to consider earthquakes, S. Florida has hurricanes and in parts of the mid west tornadoes are a yearly problem. My question becomes if special conditions of the area are less of a factor is a site built post that under engineered even with splices?

This has been a great learning tread, thanks to all that have participated.

MarkV

 

[yooperdave]

Pressure treated glue laminated beams and columns have been around for a long time. My laminator in Peshtigo, WI will also treat any length of the member if so required. You can also specify how much preservative you want.

The Peshtigo plant is the oldest laminating plant in the USA. (The owner of the plant isn't too much younger /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif...)

Yooper Dave

 

[varmint]

Steve: I checked your site, and I guess I should say that once one stops actively working in a technical field, what once was valid knowledge soon passes into the realm of historical knowledge. If a Florida laminator offers Glu-Lams for that area, rich as it is in termite fauna, then they'd work for our Ohio barn builder, I'd think. Do you suppose they are widely available? I've never seen treated posts like that, but then, I haven't been looking. I'm going to check the Morton site while I'm at this. Thanks for the input.

 

[varmint]

Re: MARKV\'s post re\' Morton\'s current practices...

For what it's worth, I did check Morton, and they are still showing the treated triple #1 SYP 2 x 6s that were in use when I put up our building. Designing for tornados- now that's another issue altogether.

 

[buckeye]

Re: MARKV\'s post re\' Morton\'s current practices...

Overall I think this discussion has been great! I really appreciate all the points of view that have been brought up. One day, we are going to have to generate a FAQ for certain areas that come up on this website. The points of view and information given here are truly a gold mine compared to anything else out there, printed or on the web. Once again, Thanks!