Debating POSITION CONTROL. What is it to YOU?

[J_J]

You only need to know about PC relative to your tractor.

Their tractor may do it differently, but it is still PC. It is not inching, and not draft. It stays where you put it, if the cyl are good and tight. If it leaks some, you be in trouble.

One does not have to know all versions of PC, but if you have to, then learn every facet about every little function of every tractor PC there is. We will consider you all expert when you graduate from PC 101.

To much data is not a good thing, necessarily. You have to weed out things useful.

 

[Singalo]

You only need to know about PC relative to your tractor.

Their tractor may do it differently, but it is still PC. It is not inching, and not draft. It stays where you put it, if the cyl are good and tight. If it leaks some, you be in trouble.

One does not have to know all versions of PC, but if you have to, then learn every facet about every little function of every tractor PC there is. We will consider you all expert when you graduate from PC 101.

To much data is not a good thing, necessarily. You have to weed out things useful.

This is not about knowing every single facet of how every single brand performs PC. Let's be very clear about that point.

This is about establishing some kind of framework, a definition that defines WHAT, position Control IS. That is completely separate from how one goes about accomplishing it. There may be 10, or a 1000 different ways to perform "PC". But until we can all agree on "WHAT" PC is, then talking about how to get there is pointless. Your comment in my opinion is quite missing the whole point of this thread.

There are those out there, I will Reference TrippleR, And Murph1234 as two people that have specifically expressed PC as being a function of a "Self Adjusting Circuit". The purpose of which is to compensate for Drift. So let me get back to an example I was talking with Trip about.

The GC1710 is said by many NOT to have position control. This was a question at the time because based on what the dealer told me, specifically concerning using the Tiller and controlling the depth of cut, that the three point hitch is used to raise the tiller to the desired height for tilling. Thus,,, PC. TrippleR then stated that the GC1710 did not have PC because it could not adjust for Drift. IF,,, you accept the explanation from Johnson City Kubota LLC as an accurate description of PC, then the GC1710 indeed has PC. So as have been stating repeatedly, this boils down to WHAT PC IS. Not trying to figure out 1000 different ways to accomplish it. My question is MUCH SIMPLER then that.

The Massey GC1710 can not both at the same time,,, HAVE PC, and NOT HAVE PC. It is one or the other. Can you speak to this JJ?

 

[ovrszd]

I just stopped in to check on a PM and found this thread. Thank you all for the amusing ten minutes of reading. :laughing:

S219 gave you an accurate and easily understandable explanation of what Position Control is. The original OP's 3 T's ain't it. The lengthy technical explanation reprinted gives an accurate description but is above the technical understanding level of most of us readers.

My Redneck description is "Position Control returns the 3pt lift to the exact same location everytime the lever is put in the same position. Change position of the lever and the 3pt lift will accurately and repeatedly go to the exact same location EVERY time."

So if I'm carrying a brushcutter for example, I can set the 3pt lever stop to a specific location and each time I lower the 3pt lever to that stop the brushcutter will be at exactly the same height. 1/4 inch valving and whatever else you want to call it won't do that. If you use your 3pt a lot there is no comparison between the two. If looking at a CUT tractor, the type of 3pt valving is the first thing I want to know.

 

[Singalo]

I just stopped in to check on a PM and found this thread. Thank you all for the amusing ten minutes of reading. :laughing:

S219 gave you an accurate and easily understandable explanation of what Position Control is. The original OP's 3 T's ain't it. The lengthy technical explanation reprinted gives an accurate description but is above the technical understanding level of most of us readers.

My Redneck description is "Position Control returns the 3pt lift to the exact same location everytime the lever is put in the same position. Change position of the lever and the 3pt lift will accurately and repeatedly go to the exact same location EVERY time."

So if I'm carrying a brushcutter for example, I can set the 3pt lever stop to a specific location and each time I lower the 3pt lever to that stop the brushcutter will be at exactly the same height. 1/4 inch valving and whatever else you want to call it won't do that. If you use your 3pt a lot there is no comparison between the two. If looking at a CUT tractor, the type of 3pt valving is the first thing I want to know.

Fine, Then as a test of my understanding, If I understand what you are saying, then the Massey GC1710 has PC. Do you agree or disagree. If I understand you correctly, then You do AGREE that the GC1710 has PC. Because it does exactly:

Position Control returns the 3pt lift to the exact same location everytime the lever is put in the same position. Change position of the lever and the 3pt lift will accurately and repeatedly go to the exact same location EVERY time.

But please understand, there are many people that do NOT agree with you.

BTW, if you are referring to the excerpt that I posted from Johnson City Kubota LLC as being the "Lengthy technical explanation". There is nothing at all difficult about it. It's as plain and straight forward as it can get. Not sure where you were going on that.

 

[ovrszd]

Fine, Then as a test of my understanding, If I understand what you are saying, then the Massey GC1710 has PC. Do you agree or disagree. If I understand you correctly, then You do AGREE that the GC1710 has PC. Because it does exactly:



But please understand, there are many people that do NOT agree with you.

I know nothing about your tractor. With that said, If your 3pt lever has numbers or hash marks or some other sort of guide to identify each position in it's range,,,,, and every time you stop the lever in the exact same position accoring to those identifying marks the 3pt lift stops at exactly the same height,,,,, then you have Position Control 3pt lift capabilities. I could give a hoot what each manufacturer calls it.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Is there by chance what would be considered a std type of PC and a deluxe type of PC? Most of the older stuff having what would now be considered the deluxe type as in it compensates for any drift and others where the manufacturer is trying to save a few $$$, does not compensate? Most of us probably would never even notice the difference and that might be why the cheaper type came into existence? :confused3:


I think that you might be trying to pin point something that doesn't really need to be pin pointed.

There are cars, there are big cars, there are small cars, there are fast cars and there are slow cars. They are all still cars and will usually get you from point A to point B.


Oh, to answer your question, "What is it to me" it is a lever on the right side of my seat that puts the implement at the height that I choose and holds it there. How it works, I don't really care.

Just my :2cents:

 

[Singalo]

I know nothing about your tractor. With that said, If your 3pt lever has numbers or hash marks or some other sort of guide to identify each position in it's range,,,,, and every time you stop the lever in the exact same position accoring to those identifying marks the 3pt lift stops at exactly the same height,,,,, then you have Position Control 3pt lift capabilities. I could give a hoot what each manufacturer calls it.

I use the GC1710 as an example because it is generally understood to not have PC. But as you have just stated, by your understanding of PC, the GC1710 indeed has PC.

There is no sticker on the side of the slot where the lever travels with numbers. But, I could use a sharpy marker and make a tick as a reference guide to move the lever to every time which achieve what you describe. I could use a bolt with a wing nut to created a settable "Hard Stop" for the lever to bump up against to stop the 3pt hitch at the same spot every time, then this would meet your definition.

In the same way, the LS J, per the company brochure, has Position control. But there are no mechanical hard stops or sticker with hash marks. Still, you you do have the ability to place the lever in the same exact spot every time with or without these visual ques.

Further, and generally speaking, nearly every modern tractor has PC if this is the definition.

Kubota is something for sure. There is a center neutral position, such that even though you can stop the 3pt hitch at an infinite number of places on long the length of its travel, you can't place the lever in any position that allows you to identically match the same height adjustment every time. So if we are using this definition of PC, simply being able to stop the 3pt at any place along the way is not good enough. You have to be able to place the lever in some specific position that recreates that height adjustment every time. A center neutral lever mechanism does not allow this.

 

[Singalo]

Is there by chance what would be considered a std type of PC and a deluxe type of PC? Most of the older stuff having what would now be considered the deluxe type as in it compensates for any drift and others where the manufacturer is trying to save a few $$$, does not compensate? Most of us probably would never even notice the difference and that might be why the cheaper type came into existence? :confused3:


I think that you might be trying to pin point something that doesn't really need to be pin pointed.

There are cars, there are big cars, there are small cars, there are fast cars and there are slow cars. They are all still cars and will usually get you from point A to point B.


Oh, to answer your question, "What is it to me" it is a lever on the right side of my seat that puts the implement at the height that I choose and holds it there. How it works, I don't really care.

Just my :2cents:

I will pull you into the same discussion with ovrszd and JJ. This is NOT about multiple ways to accomplish PC. And the reason this is important is because, well, the GC1710 is the best example. Either it has PC or it does not. There have been a fair amount of folks on TBN that claim the GC does not have PC. You guys, by this definition must agree that the GC1710 does have PC.

 

[J_J]

If you want to check and see if a tractor has PC, then measure a set distance of the 3pt arms to the cement, and move it around to different settings, and then bring the lever to the initial point and if the measure is the same, then it probably has PC.

Most people don't care how it works, they just want it when it is necessary.

 

[Singalo]

If you want to check and see if a tractor has PC, then measure a set distance of the 3pt arms to the cement, and move it around to different settings, and then bring the lever to the initial point and if the measure is the same, then it probably has PC.

Most people don't care how it works, they just want it when it is necessary.

LOL< Gahh,,,,,,, you guys are frustrating. I understand this process. I agree.

Can you speak to rather or not the GC1710 has PC?

Honestly, I accept that you may simply not know anything about the GC1710. So I don't mean to try and pin you down. What we need is someone that has claimed in the past that the GC1710 does not have PC. And tell us why they think so. Honestly, where is TrippleR when you need him. Murph has been awfully quiet on this so far as well. Not picking on you guys either. I just seem to vaguely recall that both of them were ones that would claim the GC1710 is a Non PC tractor.

But JJ, the GC would pass your test described here.