Decisions decisions - please educate me so I make the right purchase.

[TennesseeBill]

Hello, I am looking to buy a tractor but am fairly clueless the choices and additions are endless. The last time I was on a tractor was when I was a teenager working on various farms in Indiana. Beyond the tidbit this is our requirement situation:
We are buying between 132 and 150 acres in Eastern Tennessee near Treadwell, about 5 miles South of Sneedville in Hancock county. There are 40 ish acres in pasture now that is being hayed by someone else. I plan on converting another 10 15 acres that is open into pasture. The rest is wooded.
Since there have not been any livestock on the land in at least 4 5 years I would like to raise grass fed cattle and plan to do rotational grazing. I plan to cross fence the pasture land when I am not building the house.
We are planning to have the normal chickens, with a couple of goats. We hope to eventually have 2 horses.
In addition, I plan on having an organic garden, initially just for us.
It will be primarily me on the tractor.
Things I think I will need:
1. Obviously, I need a FEL (seems there are many options here also)
2. Since we will still be haying I need a way to get the bales up to the barn (Bale spear?).
3. I think I may need an excavator although maybe these can be rented. There are 5 or 6 stream that flow on the property, which I need to get into shape and maintain. In addition, I have seen a couple of springs and these need to be worked also. I also want to bury my electric line.
4. There are areas that need to be brush hogged, although I am not sure if this requires a purchase or rental.
5. I will need to haul items across the farm, thus the FEL.
6. Would there be a need for towing a wagon of some sort on or off the farm.
7. Blade for maintaining the gravel drive way (about .4 of a mile), maybe some snow removal once or twice a year?
Beyond that I am not sure what I will be needing as far as implements and certainly am unsure of which brand and size of tractor is best suited for our situation, although I was thinking a mid size 50- 60 HP?
It seems like a lot of people believe JD and Kubota are the best, although the most costly, from what I have been reading.
I keep reading the advice that you should go and test drive. Do all dealers have models you can test out and in the field, how does that work?
I have no favorite but just want something that will last (outlast) me.
I guess these are really basic dumb questions but I need to start somewhere.
FYI, if it adds anything, I normally keep my cars 15 20 years.
Money is not the primary driver here. I will sacrifice elsewhere is need be.
So any help would be appreciated.

 

[jeff9366]

TennesseeBill:

We are buying between 132 and 150 acres in Eastern Tennessee near Treadwell, in Hancock County. There are 40ish acres in pasture now that is being hayed by someone else. I plan on converting another 10 15 acres that is open into pasture. Approximately 80 is wooded.

Whew! Big property.
What is your intention for the 60% that is wooded?
What about slopes? Tractors are inherently unstable. If you will tractor on land that is sloped, tractor needs to be set up somewhat differently from a tractor that will operate exclusively on flat ground.


There have not been livestock on the land in 4 - 5 years. I would like to raise grass fed cattle and plan to do rotational grazing. I plan to cross fence the pasture land when I am not building the house.

You will probably want some brand of pasture renovator to maintain/increase productivity of your pasture. Hay King Miller is the big name, but there are many entrants in the pasture renovator category. Animal hooves pack ground so hard grass dies.
LINK: Hay King Renovators - Hay King - Miller

In Florida (cannot comment on Tennessee) cattle/horses/stock of all kinds must be fenced twenty feet back from all streams to prevent mud and feces in streams. Multiple streams may require multiple fences on both sides of streams.

You will need a Chain Harrow to distribute cattle poop into useful pasture fertilizer.

You will want a Three Point Hitch mounted Post Hole Auger or a Fence Post Pounder for your fencing.



In addition, I plan on having an organic garden, initially just for us.
One eighth acre max. A Ratchet Rake bucket attachment can prepare this small garden and be useful in driveway maintenance and woods work.


Things I think I will need:

1. I l need to haul items across the farm, thus the FEL.

Most new tractors under 5,000 pounds bare tractor weight are sold with an FEL. Lift capacity of FEL is proportionate to tractor weight, so not as much choice as you expect. Just one or two FELs are options for any given tractor model. You need counterbalance weight mounted on tractor's Three Point Hitch in order to lift more than moderate loads with the FEL.


2.Since we will still be haying I need a way to get the bales up to the barn.
Most use a conveyer to raise square bales.
Round Bales vary in weight tremendously by region and wet/dry. Anywhere from 600 pounds to 1,600 pounds per bale.
Your need to move HEAVY BALES will be a key determinate in weight of tractor you need. FEL lift capacity decrease rapidly with lift height. You will need a tractor weighing at least 4,000 pounds bare tractor.



3. I may need an excavator although maybe these can be rented. There are 5 or 6 stream that flow on the property, which I need to get into shape and maintain. In addition, I have seen a couple of springs and these need to be worked also.

Research permits and water rights carefully BEFORE buying land. Because you own land does NOT mean you have any right to remove water from streams. Nor you can muddy stream water exiting your property. EPA citations can run into the thousands of dollars. Your downstream neighbors will call the EPA at the first evidence of disturbed water.

While you have streams you probably need to drill wells for water. Wells require permits.


4. There are areas that need to be brush hogged, although I am not sure if this requires a purchase or rental.
Purchase for sure. Rotary Cutters (Bush Hog is a brand of Rotary Cutter.) and Box Blades are the two ubiquitous Three Point Hitch implements.


5.
6. Would there be a need for towing a wagon of some sort on or off the farm?
YES. Most of use a utility vehicle for carrying tools and saws and towing utility wagons. Mine is a Kubota RTV500 @ $10,000.
LINK: MUTS - Multi-Use Trailer System for your ATV, Quad and 4 Wheeler


7. Blade for maintaining the gravel drive way (about .4 of a mile), maybe some snow removal once or twice a year?
Possibly a Rear/Angle blade and FEL for snow. Possibly another implement for driveway. This assumes drive traverses flat ground.

Gravel, dirt or grass driveway?



I am unsure of which size tractor is suited for our situation, although I am thinking a mid size 50- 60 HP. I normally keep my cars 15 to 20 years. Money is not the primary driver here.

YES. 50 - 60 horsepower tractors weigh 4,000 to 6,000 pounds bare. Weight is your friend. Horsepower is mostly relevant to implements powered off the Power Take Off (PTO).
Back to slopes: Heavy tractors are more stable than light tractors. Heavy tractors usually have wider wheel stance than light tractors. DeLuxe tractors have more wheel width options than spartan tractors.

New tractor cost $37,000 to $55,000, plus implements and attachments.


It seems a lot of people believe JD and Kubota are the best, although the most costly, from what I have been reading.

Forget brands until you know what weight of tractor you need and how you desire the tractor set up. Then sit on a few OF THE APPROPRIATE WEIGHT to see how they feel ergonomically. You will spend a lot of hours in the seat, twisting around to look at the sides and implements working in the rear. If you are sixty years old or older spend the money for a fully featured body-friendly model rather than a spartan tractor.

Collect a brochure on every tractor of appropriate weight.

Proximity and reputation of local tractor dealers is important. My excellent Kubota dealer is six miles away. Proximity adds value to the tractor every time I have a problem. I abhor equipment down time.

Kubota has 46% US market share in tractor weights discussed here, Deere 19% US market share. All other brands split remaining 35% market share. Off a small base, Korean tractors are the fastest growing segment. LS and Kioti are the leading Korean tractor brands.


I read advice that you should test drive. Do all dealers have models you can test out and in the field, how does that work?

NO. Tractor volumes are very low relative to car/truck volumes. Very few dealers are willing to permit tractor newbies to BASH their tractor inventory unsupervised. Plus, some "buyers" want to "test" at home rather than rent a tractor to dig up the plugged septic tank. People are BAD.

Tractors pretty much move dirt the same. Only drive enough at the tractor dealer's to determine if tractor is comfortable for your corpus.


I have no favorite but just want something that will last (outlast) me.
Buy ENOUGH TRACTOR.

 

[stingray1]

Whatever brand and size you buy you'll need a FEL and 4 wheel drive.

 

[BMan2005]

Jeff has a really good post to your questions.

You mentioned moving hay, are you looking to tend it yourself or keep leasing it?

 

[3Lfarms]

I went through a similar quandary a few months ago. 40 acres of pasture for 15-20 cows.
First the JD dealer didn’t want to talk to me because I wasn’t in the market for a quarter million dollar machine.
I liked the LS tractors, but the two dealers near me had never sold one bigger than a 41 series machine and I wanted 60 to 70 hp. Prices and quality seemed really good.
Kioti were nice, but no cabbed machines to look at and price quoted for a 65ish hp cabbed machine was only a couple grand less than a similar Kubota.
Branson seemed like good machines, but price was about the same as Kioti. Very small dealer didn’t me give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Mahindra is a lot of machine for the money, but quality doesn’t seem to be as nice as all the others. Price was pretty good, but I had heard stories about problems due to some models being made in different companies in factories around the world. I had read about seemingly tricky/sensitive loader controls.
New Holland were pretty pricey, but the value line Boomers are made by LS, but have less features and more expensive than an actual LS.
Kubotas are very nice, and if money is no object, best bet is just go to the nearest dealer and get the machine you want. If I was rich, I’d have a fleet of them. Their pricing reminds me of Porsche. The base model is good value, but what are standard features on a lot of machines is an optional extra...and a bit spendy. The price I was quoted for three remotes about made me do a spit-take.

After months of looking and a ton of reading here(and elsewhere), and watching a bunch of videos, I was pretty set to order an LS. I got ahold of the district sales rep and asked if there was a cabbed XU6168 anywhere near I could look at. The dealer he put me in touch with was a couple hours away, but he specialized in larger tractors and farm equipment. That dealer didn’t have one in stock either, but had sold one recently and the owner was nice enough to let me drive his machine. Based on the literature and specs, I was pretty sure it would be a good fit, but there is no way i can bring myself to spend that kind of money without making sure it fit me (I’m 6’3” and three bills). It was very comfortable and I liked how smooth the hydraulics and controls worked. I placed my order that day. Couple weeks later I picked it up. 6168CPS $42,500... about $10k less than a similarly equipped Kubota.


I figure saving that kind of money makes up for not having the large Kubota or JD dealer network. Since I do my own maintenance, I don’t think it will be an issue. The reviews on the LS machines are overwhelmingly positive, minus what I suspect are people unfamiliar with tractors or are pushing their machine past its limits.


68 hp (60 PTO) with 84” tiller is a good fit to till the pasture for seeding. I can till (one pass) about 1.25 acres per hour (8” deep).


So far I am very happy with my purchase and have had no problems

 

[jeff9366]

Mahindra is a lot of machine for the money, but quality doesn't seem to be as nice as the others. Price was pretty good, but I had heard stories about problems due to some models being made in different companies in factories around the world. I had read about seemingly tricky/sensitive loader controls.

Good value in no frills $31,000 Mahindra 5500. 6,000 pounds, bare tractor. Made in India by Mahindra.
FEL additional $$.

MAHINDRA LINK: https://mahindrausa.com/sites/default/files/tractor/pdf/24084 MAH545500 5500 Ser Bro 071817_1.pdf



I have no personal experience operating any Mahindra tractor.

 

[TennesseeBill]

Jeff, thanks so much for such an engaging reply, I will try to answer what I can.

TennesseeBill:

We are buying between 132 and 150 acres in Eastern Tennessee near Treadwell, in Hancock County. There are 40ish acres in pasture now that is being hayed by someone else. I plan on converting another 10 15 acres that is open into pasture. Approximately 80 is wooded.

Whew! Big property.
What is your intention for the 60% that is wooded?
What about slopes? Tractors are inherently unstable. If you will tractor on land that is sloped, tractor needs to be set up somewhat differently from a tractor that will operate exclusively on flat ground.

The wooded part starts with a small slope and then gets progressively greater the further it goes back up the mountain. There are a few logging trails, which if cleared we could use an ATV to get to most of the lower half. I have seen several deer on the property and have seen turkey and coyote in the general area. I think I will be using and ATV to do anything in the woods unless it might be clearing a bit of land but that would not be on any slope.

There have not been livestock on the land in 4 - 5 years. I would like to raise grass fed cattle and plan to do rotational grazing. I plan to cross fence the pasture land when I am not building the house.

You will probably want some brand of pasture renovator to maintain/increase productivity of your pasture. Hay King Miller is the big name, but there are many entrants in the pasture renovator category. Animal hooves pack ground so hard grass dies.
LINK: Hay King Renovators - Hay King - Miller

In Florida (cannot comment on Tennessee) cattle/horses/stock of all kinds must be fenced twenty feet back from all streams to prevent mud and feces in streams. Multiple streams may require multiple fences on both sides of streams.

You will need a Chain Harrow to distribute cattle poop into useful pasture fertilizer.

You will want a Three Point Hitch mounted Post Hole Auger or a Fence Post Pounder for your fencing.

I appreciate the information on the Hay King Renovator and the chain harrow. So would I use the chain harrow first and then the renovator? Looks like the chain harrow basically sweeps up all the dead organic material and puts some holes in the ground while the renovator cuts deeper furrows for deeper aeration. Regardless, I will look into these and ask others in the area about this.
Not sure which type of fence is used for cross fencing but I will need an auger for the perimeter fence.


In addition, I plan on having an organic garden, initially just for us.
One eighth acre max. A Ratchet Rake bucket attachment can prepare this small garden and be useful in driveway maintenance and woods work.

Why did you say 1/8 acre max for the garden?
I did check out some videos on a ratchet rake and am really impressed with what it can do. Although, I don't like the way they attach to the bucket, should be an easier/quicker way.
Speaking of gardening what tools would I look at for that area of work?


Things I think I will need:

1. I l need to haul items across the farm, thus the FEL.

Most new tractors under 5,000 pounds bare tractor weight are sold with an FEL. Lift capacity of FEL is proportionate to tractor weight, so not as much choice as you expect. Just one or two FELs are options for any given tractor model. You need counterbalance weight mounted on tractor's Three Point Hitch in order to lift more than moderate loads with the FEL.


2.Since we will still be haying I need a way to get the bales up to the barn.
Most use a conveyer to raise square bales.
Round Bales vary in weight tremendously by region and wet/dry. Anywhere from 600 pounds to 1,600 pounds per bale.
Your need to move HEAVY BALES will be a key determinate in weight of tractor you need. FEL lift capacity decrease rapidly with lift height. You will need a tractor weighing at least 4,000 pounds bare tractor.

I remember using a conveyer when I used to work on the farm
Since I have to have somewhere to store all of my equipment and since I may need to be away for weeks at a time my original plan (and still is I think) is to get to containers about 30 feet apart. The containers can be locked and alarmed. I will then build a barn around them with the ability to store the square bales in the loft.


3. I may need an excavator although maybe these can be rented. There are 5 or 6 stream that flow on the property, which I need to get into shape and maintain. In addition, I have seen a couple of springs and these need to be worked also.

Research permits and water rights carefully BEFORE buying land. Because you own land does NOT mean you have any right to remove water from streams. Nor you can muddy stream water exiting your property. EPA citations can run into the thousands of dollars. Your downstream neighbors will call the EPA at the first evidence of disturbed water.

While you have streams you probably need to drill wells for water. Wells require permits.


4. There are areas that need to be brush hogged, although I am not sure if this requires a purchase or rental.
Purchase for sure. Rotary Cutters (Bush Hog is a brand of Rotary Cutter.) and Box Blades are the two ubiquitous Three Point Hitch implements.

After posting my questions I did more research and agree that a brush hog should be bought. I just need to determine what size I will need but that will be done after I decide on the tractor

5.
6. Would there be a need for towing a wagon of some sort on or off the farm?
YES. Most of use a utility vehicle for carrying tools and saws and towing utility wagons. Mine is a Kubota RTV500 @ $10,000.
LINK: MUTS - Multi-Use Trailer System for your ATV, Quad and 4 Wheeler

Wow I was looking at the Mighty Muts Utility Trailers and in addition to being very stable and agile the uses are endless. This will definitely be something that I intend to get.

7. Blade for maintaining the gravel drive way (about .4 of a mile), maybe some snow removal once or twice a year?
Possibly a Rear/Angle blade and FEL for snow. Possibly another implement for driveway. This assumes drive traverses flat ground.

Gravel, dirt or grass driveway?

My driveway is all gravel. I need to look at more videos and see what the blade and FEL advantages and disadvantages are. I would rather not get more than I need or can use.

I am unsure of which size tractor is suited for our situation, although I am thinking a mid size 50- 60 HP. I normally keep my cars 15 to 20 years. Money is not the primary driver here.

YES. 50 - 60 horsepower tractors weigh 4,000 to 6,000 pounds bare. Weight is your friend. Horsepower is mostly relevant to implements powered off the Power Take Off (PTO).
Back to slopes: Heavy tractors are more stable than light tractors. Heavy tractors usually have wider wheel stance than light tractors. DeLuxe tractors have more wheel width options than spartan tractors.

What is considered a DeLuxe tractor and do options on them add any NEEDED improvement?

New tractor cost $37,000 to $55,000, plus implements and attachments.


It seems a lot of people believe JD and Kubota are the best, although the most costly, from what I have been reading.

Forget brands until you know what weight of tractor you need and how you desire the tractor set up. Then sit on a few OF THE APPROPRIATE WEIGHT to see how they feel ergonomically. You will spend a lot of hours in the seat, twisting around to look at the sides and implements working in the rear. If you are sixty years old or older spend the money for a fully featured body-friendly model rather than a spartan tractor.

Collect a brochure on every tractor of appropriate weight.

Proximity and reputation of local tractor dealers is important. My excellent Kubota dealer is six miles away. Proximity adds value to the tractor every time I have a problem. I abhor equipment down time.

Kubota has 46% US market share in tractor weights discussed here, Deere 19% US market share. All other brands split remaining 35% market share. Off a small base, Korean tractors are the fastest growing segment. LS and Kioti are the leading Korean tractor brands.

I was talking to a Kubota dealer today and after going over my plans are he thought mid range of about 50 - 60 hp would be appropriate, he will send me some ideas tomorrow. I also talked to a LS dealer close to where we will be and he thought 40 -50 hp. He is also going to send me info/ideas on the LS and Kioti.
When I looked for a JD dealer close to me the closest was about 150 miles away in Memphis. That is way too far I think, even for a good make. I will get on the area forums and see if anyone knows different manufacture dealerships and has had good experience with them.


I read advice that you should test drive. Do all dealers have models you can test out and in the field, how does that work?

NO. Tractor volumes are very low relative to car/truck volumes. Very few dealers are willing to permit tractor newbies to BASH their tractor inventory unsupervised. Plus, some "buyers" want to "test" at home rather than rent a tractor to dig up the plugged septic tank. People are BAD.

Tractors pretty much move dirt the same. Only drive enough at the tractor dealer's to determine if tractor is comfortable for your corpus.


I have no favorite but just want something that will last (outlast) me.
Buy ENOUGH TRACTOR.

I intend to take your last bit of advice ?Buy ENOUGH TRACTOR? to heart. I used to buy items as close to what I thought I would need and no larger (I guess that was partly from not having the money to go bigger with I was in the AF). Most of the time I ended up regretting my decision. My last vehicle purchase was our Chevy Traverse and while at the time I did not think I would need all the room with just us and two dogs I am so happy I got it now.

I have a couple of new questions:
1. I have read about ballast and the different types from water to beet juice and I believe I saw one dealer offer them as standard. Is this a good idea to put this in your tires? What harm outside of rust can it do and would that be offset by the advantages?
2. I keep reading about remotes. I believe they are additional high pressure hydraulic lines for other implements!? Can anyone educate me on if I should get them with the tractor and if so how many? I guess they would power something like a backhoe?
3. What about rear SCVs?
4. How much consideration should be given to the weight of the tractor? I keep reading the weight really determines the max of certain things you can do. So I guess if deciding between different tractors and everything being somewhat equal should weight be a large part of the decision if there is a significant difference? I hope that is clear.
5. I normally do not get extended warranties on items I buy, including vehicles as I tend to find they are never used unless you misuse something and then the warranty might not be enforceable. What about tractors though?
6. Is a cab is worth the extra money?

Anyhow sorry for the long post but you took such time to help me I wanted to respond to each of your points.
Thank you.

 

[TennesseeBill]

Stingray1,

I agree from what I have read and seen those are two must haves.

 

[TennesseeBill]

BMan2005,
I can't see me buying haying equipment. I would guess that would require a second mortgage on the farm. I'll just let the professionals do it and let them keep part of it.

 

[Tractorable]

Jeff, thanks so much for such an engaging reply, I will try to answer what I can.



I intend to take your last bit of advice ?Buy ENOUGH TRACTOR? to heart. I used to buy items as close to what I thought I would need and no larger (I guess that was partly from not having the money to go bigger with I was in the AF). Most of the time I ended up regretting my decision. My last vehicle purchase was our Chevy Traverse and while at the time I did not think I would need all the room with just us and two dogs I am so happy I got it now.

I have a couple of new questions:
1. I have read about ballast and the different types from water to beet juice and I believe I saw one dealer offer them as standard. Is this a good idea to put this in your tires? What harm outside of rust can it do and would that be offset by the advantages?
2.I keep reading about remotes. I believe they are additional high pressure hydraulic lines for other implements!? Can anyone educate me on if I should get them with the tractor and if so how many? I guess they would power something like a backhoe?
3.What about rear SCVs?
4.How much consideration should be given to the weight of the tractor? I keep reading the weight really determines the max of certain things you can do. So I guess if deciding between different tractors and everything being somewhat equal should weight be a large part of the decision if there is a significant difference? I hope that is clear.
5.I normally do not get extended warranties on items I buy, including vehicles as I tend to find they are never used unless you misuse something and then the warranty might not be enforceable. What about tractors though?
6.Is a cab is worth the extra money?

Anyhow sorry for the long post but you took such time to help me I wanted to respond to each of your points.
Thank you.

1. Yes, get your tires loaded. Lots more advantages than disadvantages. Beer juice, rim guard, etc won't cause rust. Calcium and straight water will.

2. Rear remotes are needed if you want to control implements from the tractor seat. Things like top n tilt for box blades, to adjust rear blades, to control snow blower chutes, back hoes. They're useful and allow for options down the road. You will also probably want a "third function" remote on the front loader to operate a grapple or other front mounted implements.

3. Pretty sure those are hydraulic remotes but I might be wrong.

4. Weight is good; it determines traction which determines how much work you can do. Some tractors are lighter than others, but you can always add weight but not remove it. Lighter weight is good for mowing, heavy weight it good for moving dirt and snow and logs and other heavy stuff.

5. Haven't heard of extended warranties for tractors. Most tractors built today will out live you. They're much tougher than cars and last a lot longer.

6. If you're old and can't take the heat then get a cab. Young guys can take the heat but don't have the cash. Old guys got the cash but can't take the heat. Cabs are not good for working in the woods, they get banged up and damaged. They're pricey but lots of guys love to sip their lattes in climate controlled comfort while bush hogging in 100 degree heat.