Dog food for thought

[Bird]

And the life expectancy of a male in 1900 was 48 years, and is around 75 now.

That's what I was thinking. I don't think I want to go back to 100 year old diet.

We then switched her to Muenster Natural Dog Food, which is made in the town of Muenster about 50 miles from here. It cleared up the allergies.

Alan, Muenster is 50 miles from us, but we drive up there periodically to buy meats and cheeses from Fischer's Meat Market, so it would be easy enough to get our dog food there, too. But I went to Google.com and read some of the reviews I found for "Muenster dog food" and that's not very reassuring.

 

[jimmyj]

Hey Arrow, the beet pulp is just an insoluble fibre I would think. They do need some of that and it's not likely a carbo source.

Fact is, meat and fat are expensive and carb's are cheaper. That's why they use so many. There are new "evolutionary diets" out now that are "grain free".

Look for foods that have prebiotics and probiotics in them too, yucca shidigera is a common one in pet food. The top foods are made to consider all of the amino acids and so on. I personally would not feed Iams FYI. We did a test with our own dogs (we have 4) and we moved from a high end holistic food to a cheaper well know brand sold in supermarkets. It was less than half the price.

Anyhow, some of the dogs appeared to be OK but one developed a problem with incontenence within 8 weeks. We put them back on the original food and the problem went away within 3 weeks. Amazing. They do stuff in the foods that plays games with natural digestive processes. For example, a well known brand of cat canned food uses a chemical additive to lower urine PH. (After cats eat the urine PH spikes). Anyhow, the natural evolution of cats would see them eating meat mostly (a cat is called an "obligate carnivore" which means they MUST have meat - kind of like my brother ). Natural meat diets naturally keep the urine PH at proper levels and prevent the spike. The chemical manipulation has a side effect whereby the urine PH falls too low after the bulk of the meal is metabolized and too low of a urine PH is no good either (it's called acidosis). So, this example demonstrates how feeding whole ingredients that mimic the evolutionary diet of the animal naturally works with the whole dietary management of the dog / cat.

In the past pet food companies started using too many carbs for cats and the result was that cats developed health problems due to too few amino acids found in meat. Example: Taurine, cats were losing heart and eye function due to not enough taurine. Well, you can stick meat in your food to fix that problem or you can add taurine and still use grains. Obviously the meat solution would be preferred.

Dogs are true omnivores so there should not be anything wrong with them eating some carbo sources. The key is a high quality balanced diet.

Regulations are not helpful either - there are rules about what you can say on product labels that help companies hide quality facts from consumers. By law you have to call X ingredient "by product". Well, you can buy really really good by product and you can buy really really crappy by product. The nutritional contribution would be quite different between the two but on the label they must be called the same. The consumer would never know. Better manufacturers stick to quality of ingredient as much as the ingredient itself. One of the threads mentioned Royal Canin. I've been to their plant, it is something right out of NASA. Amazing. The make ingredient haulers wait while they do a sampling of the profile of all ingredients they receive. If the profile of the new batch is not identical to the biological profile of the spec, the reject it. Other vendors buy X ingredient and go by price. One day for X$ a ton they get good quality X, another day they get lower quality X for the same price and the end result is a food that has inconsistent quaility.

It's a huge riddle just like we have for human food. Sorry for the ramble, I could go on for days on this.

Jim

 

[Unregistered2013]

i have long felt a correlation between high grain, junk food dog diets and cancer.

i often tell adopters, "sure, you can feed your dog garbage iams and they'll eat it, sort of like your kid will eat mcdonalds if you feed it to them" --

thus, i have fed a raw diet to all my dogs and fosters for years.

here's the link --

spbr

let me know if you want to feed it to your next pup -- we meet in avon ct every 2-3 months to pick it up, and i'll give you close to my distributor rate -- 33% off.

i am a huge believer in this stuff.

 

[dmccarty]

I swear our dogs eat better than we do.

Of the seven dogs that have had me, two got hit by cars, two died of old age, cancer got one, one died of breeding issues, and one is a young dog.

She researches the heck out of the dog food. Only the best for the dog. The wifey is now feeding our one dog Timber Wolf brand food. Never heard of it. She buys it from a lady who has a store in the middle of no where in an old trailer. How in the heck anyone can find the "store" is beyond me. But she stays in business. I just read the label and ingredients include ELK, yes ELK, salmon meal, salmon oil, millet, oats, dried apples, dried blueberries, blah blah blah. Danged dog eats better than I do.

We have had three Goldens and they have all had eating issues. Meaning if you put food down they would eat until the go sick. The wifey loves Goldens but a dog that eats until they get sick ain't too bright if you ask me. Just don't tell her I said that. Well I have said it to her but the dogs don't stay outside so we don't have a dog house for me to sleep in so don't tell her I said it again.

Our remaining dog is a Golden and she gets fed once a day.

My GSD would eat when she was hungry. I would just make sure she had food in the bowl and she would eat as needed. They are a smart dog. My other dogs did not have eating issues either. Just left food in the bowl and they would eat when they needed it.

Gots to go! The wifey is driving up and I don't want her to see what I said about Goldens! Shhhh!

Later,
Dan

 

[arrow]

And the life expectancy of a male in 1900 was 48 years, and is around 75 now.

People did die sooner then but I do not think it was because of the foods they ate more than the lack of anti biotics, or food spoilage, child birth deaths, deaths due to the building and industrial lack of safety regulations and hygiene that would kill a pig. I think it was Pee-Wee Reese who said "If man makes it, don't eat it"

 

[arrow]

Hey Arrow, the beet pulp is just an insoluble fibre I would think. They do need some of that and it's not likely a carbo source.


Jim

It is both soluble and mostly insoluble. There is a degree of pectin in it where some energy is derived from beet pulp. It is not a bad ingredient as much as it is an unnatural one but it is cheap to echo your associated sentiment and maybe one notch lower than alfalfa as far as dietary benefit. Contrary to wide spread belief, it actually has a very low glycemic index. Alfalfa is a better and more natural food source but probably cost 50 times more than beet pulp. At least a wild canine might find alfalfa in the gut of a vanquished herbivore providing essential nutrients.

To answer some other questions about carbs in a dogs diet, there are beneficial and essential nutrient derived aspects when a dog ingests complex carbs. Brown rice is better than white, whole grains are better than ground and processed cereal types but meat ( not raw) remains one of the largest essentials of a dogs diet.

 

[DocHeb]

People did die sooner then but I do not think it was because of the foods they ate more than the lack of anti biotics, or food spoilage, child birth deaths, deaths due to the building and industrial lack of safety regulations and hygiene that would kill a pig. I think it was Pee-Wee Reese who said "If man makes it, don't eat it"

I just spent 25 minutes typing a full logical explaination of my post, and it was just erased by this site (I guess I was too inactive for too long according to the TBN server!) You will now get the condensed version. You are of course correct about the reasons for increased longevity, but I gave that example to show that there is not direct relationship between "associations" and "causes". People try ascribe cause to things when there really is only an association.

"The entire pickle crop of 1818 was poisonous. All the people that ate pickles that year died."

Attributing cause to the pickles does not logically hold up - all the non-pickle eaters have also died. There is, however an association. You can't have this same logical mistake with "natural" and "processed foods". Just because a food is natural doesn't make it safe (think of aflatoxin, one of the most carcinogenic chemicals, is a product of nature), and just because a food is processed does not mean it is unsafe.

 

[arrow]

[

Attributing cause to the pickles does not logically hold up - all the non-pickle eaters have also died. There is, however an association. You can't have this same logical mistake with "natural" and "processed foods". Just because a food is natural doesn't make it safe (think of aflatoxin, one of the most carcinogenic chemicals, is a product of nature), and just because a food is processed does not mean it is unsafe.[/QUOTE]

I will not disagree with some of what you say. But a processed food, through association, has more of a chance of being processed with elements that may indeed be toxic such as a food using preservatives. Raw milk is natural but you are better off with the processed version of being pasteurized, however if they put bht in the milk for a longer shelf life such that they do with many foods, I'd prefer to go with the left alone version. Bologna and hot dogs are the processed version of beef and pork. I'll go with the steak and pork chops. Ethoxyquin is a very widely used dog food preservative and it is a known carcinogen. This is put in to extend shelf life and it does not have to be listed as a dog food ingredient as it is most used at the processing plant and not the dog food company. We live in a corporate world where profit margins are more important than yours and my and our pets well being. And as far as the argument of the corporation not doing anything to hurt itself out of business by putting in toxins, they'll do whatever they can get away with until it reaches a point where many people know and it effects business. Then they'll make a change otherwise they'd be upfront of exactly what they put in dog and cat foods instead of calling "feces"...... "animal digest". I for one will not lose sight of that so I'll practice caveat emptor philosophies.
As far as your first problem, if you time out after a long dissertation, just go ahead and log back in. You will not lose your piece as it will appear once more.

Also it was that mad man baseball player Jimmy Pierisal who made the quote of "if man makes it, don't eat it". He may of been crazy but he was more right than wrong on this one.

 

[Ray2210]

In the last couple of years we lost two very dearly loved little dogs. Snowie a cockapoo was 18 and Dusty a mini schnauzer-poodle cross was 21. Both came down with brain tumors and were very healthy until then. My wife has for the most part made all of the dog food from whole grains and cooked and raw meats. They do get some table scraps, raw bones, some rawhide chews and a few commercial dog treats though. Our 6 year old and one year old little dogs, god willing, will have long and healthy lives. Our dogs are our kids and darn it's hard losing them, downright hearbreaking.

 

[arrow]

In the last couple of years we lost two very dearly loved little dogs. Snowie a cockapoo was 18 and Dusty a mini schnauzer-poodle cross was 21. Both came down with brain tumors and were very healthy until then. My wife has for the most part made all of the dog food from whole grains and cooked and raw meats. They do get some table scraps, raw bones, some rawhide chews and a few commercial dog treats though. Our 6 year old and one year old little dogs, god willing, will have long and healthy lives. Our dogs are our kids and darn it's hard losing them, downright hearbreaking.

I think Ray you are on a correct tract of establishing your own dog food. You have gotten extended longevity even if small breeds historically live longer. I think it puzzling that both dogs succumbed to brain tumors. Usually it seems from many of the old vet records I've been poring over lately that many dogs have gotten liver or spleen or lymphoma type cancers or those cancers having a link to digestive processes. I wish they would of jotted down what feeds these dogs were on. Of course certain breeds succumbing to the same cancers show more of a genetic link in my mind. I would think what you are experiencing may not be food related. I hope you are able to go the extended distances with your present animals as you did with your previous ones.