Duramax towing MPG

   / Duramax towing MPG #31  
Don't be too impressed. If you listen closely the "chief engineer" says they are similarly equipped with the "LOWEST NUMERICAL AXLE RATIO". That is the kicker right there. For those that may or may not know, the lower the numerical number, the taller the gear.
Lowest numerical axle ratio offered:
Ford - 3.31
Dodge - 3.42
Chevy - 3.73

So they were not "similarly equipped". The Ford had taller gearing which means the rpms were lower at the rated speed which lead to the better fuel mileage. If they all had the same rear axle ratio (they all offer 3.73), I bet the outcome would be different and I bet the RAM Cummins would be on top. It's Ford doing what they do best, playing the numbers game instead of actually showing a true FAIR competition.
Motor Trend did a true FAIR competition and the RAM heavy duty truck came out as Truck of the Year for a reason.

You will defend Dodge because you are Brand Loyal as you say but the rear end meant something a few years ago but does not really mean much now days. All the manufactures, Ford included, have made great strides in trannys. Another big difference is the tire sizes used now days. The ratios have changed so much that a 3.42 gear can now be equal to a 4.10 gear in a similar truck that is just 2 years old. Also going from the old standard 15" tires and wheels compared to the new trucks with 18" or larger can make a bid difference.

To get a true FAIR comparison you would need to do the math starting with the engine RPM's then calculate the gear ratio in the tranny, then the rear axle ratio, and finally the tire rotations per mile. I have sat down and did just this a few years back on the 08 models and they were all very close.

Chris
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #32  
A freind has an 04 CC SB 4x4 DMAX [LLY version]. It has a hard time breaking 15MPG on the highway empty. My 03 LB7 Reg cab 8 ft box 4x4 gets 19 to 22 empty on the highway, and the worst towing mileage ever was 13 mpg towing a 15k mini excavator and trailer. I normaly tow a 7-9k 28 ft enclosed, and get 14 to 17 depending on wind and how much of a hurry I am in


I am right in the ball park with you Ryan in my 2006 F-350 SRW 4x4 short bed extended cab with the 6.0 PSD. I average 17 mpg every tank plus or minus 1 mpg. I get 23.6 mpg at 79mph/1900rpm on the highway. Towing I get 15-17 mpg depending on how big a hurry I am in. I have seen as low as 13 mpg but that was with a heavy load and getting on it in the Smokies. Basically the same as you.

I do run a Quadzilla chip, 4" exhaust, and a MAC cold air intake.

Chris
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #33  
You will defend Dodge because you are Brand Loyal as you say but the rear end meant something a few years ago but does not really mean much now days.

It doesn't matter who I "defend", the facts are the facts. When I defend a company, I do it with FACTS. You always defend Ford by just saying "that doesn't matter" or "it's not real world". The FACT is the Ford has a taller rear end then the others. If it was the other way around with another manufacturer then you would be right there too comparing axle ratios. But when Ford's coming out ahead, all of a sudden they don't matter. Too funny! :laughing:
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #34  
It doesn't matter who I "defend", the facts are the facts. When I defend a company, I do it with FACTS. You always defend Ford by just saying "that doesn't matter" or "it's not real world". The FACT is the Ford has a taller rear end then the others. If it was the other way around with another manufacturer then you would be right there too comparing axle ratios. But when Ford's coming out ahead, all of a sudden they don't matter. Too funny! :laughing:

Facts are facts. Sorry you are too blind to see it. I would have never bought a truck with less than 3.73 gears a few years ago. Now I have to eat crow and say I would.

Case in point is my cousin bought a new 1500 GMC 4x4 with 3.42 gears and the 5.3L in about 2005. That thing was sorry to say the least. Had something like a 6,800# tow rating and him pulling a 5,000# boat to Tennessee left him struggling in the hills on I75. My F-150 with 10,000# and 3.73 gears did just as good. Neither one of us were winning any races.

Today an the same truck with a 3.42 gear is a different beast. Reason being is 6 speed tranny. Put a low 1st gear in it like the old Granny Gear Trannys, (hides the tall rear end), and put a real tall 6th gear in it and now you have a truck that can tow 9,000# plus and get 20 mpg on the highway. Nissan led the way with this thinking back in 2003 when they introduced the Titan and GM followed quickly. It was a smart move and sold many trucks for GM. Dodge and Ford were late to the game and stayed with old school ideas but are now up to speed.

Again, just the facts!

Chris
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #35  
Facts are facts. Sorry you are too blind to see it.

Case in point is my cousin bought a new 1500 GMC 4x4 with 3.42 gears and the 5.3L in about 2005. That thing was sorry to say the least. Had something like a 6,800# tow rating and him pulling a 5,000# boat to Tennessee left him struggling in the hills on I75. My F-150 with 10,000# and 3.73 gears did just as good. Neither one of us were winning any races.

Today an the same truck with a 3.42 gear is a different beast. Reason being is 6 speed tranny.

WHERE ARE THE FACTS IN YOUR POST? All I see is YOUR OPINION! Now your comparing 6-speed transmissions to 5-speeds?
We are not comparing 6 year old trucks with 5 speed transmissions here. Sure a new truck with a 6-speed transmission can have a taller rear end than an older truck with a 5-speed but that has NOTHING to do with the comparison of three BRAND NEW TRUCKS all with 6 SPEED transmissions. The difference in rear axle ratios still means just as much considering the transmissions and tire sizes are so close between these three. Your comparisons are not even close to the question in hand and I'm the blind one? :laughing: :laughing:
You get a double laughing smiley for that one!
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #36  
WHERE ARE THE FACTS IN YOUR POST? All I see is YOUR OPINION! Now your comparing 6-speed transmissions to 5-speeds?
We are not comparing 6 year old trucks with 5 speed transmissions here. Sure a new truck with a 6-speed transmission can have a taller rear end than an older truck with a 5-speed but that has NOTHING to do with the comparison of three BRAND NEW TRUCKS all with 6 SPEED transmissions. The difference in rear axle ratios still means just as much considering the transmissions and tire sizes are so close between these three. Your comparisons are not even close to the question in hand and I'm the blind one? :laughing: :laughing:
You get a double laughing smiley for that one!

I don't have all the exact numbers on all the final drive ratios so I'm not going to state anything specific as fact. I will just say that the rear axle ratio is not the only ratio that is important when deciding how hard an engine is going to work to pull a load or how many rpms it's going to run cruising on the highway. It is a combination of the rear axle ratio and the gear ratios in the transmission that matter. So it is conceivable with the newer trannies and their 6 speeds that you can get a lower overall final drive ratio with a vehicle that has taller gears and end up with a truck still able to start off with heavy loads and still get respectable fuel economy when cruising.

Having said that, I think that this design is prevalent in all manufacturers GM, Ford and Chrysler. It looks like the test was fair as Ford took the tallest gears available from each company when they conducted their test. It isn't Ford's problem that GM and Dodge didn't have the option of 3.31 gears on their trucks. The tallest gears that you could get with a GM was 3.73 at the time I believe while 3.42 was as tall as you could get in a Dodge. I think what is being presented is that if you want to get the best fuel economy the Ford offers a taller gear ratio for the rear axle that is still capable of pulling a heavy load. I wish GM offered a 3.42 ratio for their Duramax equipped trucks but it appears that at the time of the test they didn't, so I can't fault Ford for that, and I like GM trucks. I think it would be a less fair test if Ford compared one of their trucks equipped with a 3.31 rear axle against a Dodge and a Chevy with 4.10's knowing that a lower gear ratio was available, but that does not appear to be the case here.

In the end just because Ford has an edge in some areas, it doesn't mean that they make the best truck for me. Perhaps GM or Dodge have the edge in other areas and the advantage for me in those areas make another truck the overall best. To me the new Ford is not a good looking truck, it's not so bad that I wouldn't buy one just based on looks (like a Pontiac Aztek for example) but it is by far the least attractive 2011 heavy duty pickup in my eyes. Meanwhile Dodge is the best looking truck by far to me over Ford and Chevy but if I'm buying a 2011 I want a truck with urea injection as it seems to significantly improve fuel economy, so that's a strike against Dodge to me. Meanwhile I live in the Northeast where there's a lot of snow, and GM has had some serious issues with their Duramax in the snow so if that hasn't been totally addressed for 2011 then that's a big strike against them to me. So I guess what I'm saying is Ford, GM or Chrysler can jump up and down shouting horsepower numbers or towing numbers or mpg numbers whatever and those numbers don't mean a darn thing by themselves. The only FACT is that there is NO BEST PICKUP on the market. There may be a best pickup for Lt CHEG, and a best pickup for DMace and a best pickup for Diamond Pilot etc. etc. and most likely they are not the same truck. To me arguing numbers over any one vehicle proves little, especially considering just how capable and impressive each company's trucks are. I honestly don't let any person's brand preference or their defense of the same bother me, and it's sad to see people getting angry over the subject. I've had good luck with GM products but I have NO loyalty in this day and age, just like no company has any loyalty to me. I'll buy what's best for me regardless of whether there's a bow tie, a blue oval or horns on the front of the truck and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if that truck isn't the best truck for anyone else.
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #37  
I don't have all the exact numbers on all the final drive ratios so I'm not going to state anything specific as fact. I will just say that the rear axle ratio is not the only ratio that is important when deciding how hard an engine is going to work to pull a load or how many rpms it's going to run cruising on the highway. It is a combination of the rear axle ratio and the gear ratios in the transmission that matter. So it is conceivable with the newer trannies and their 6 speeds that you can get a lower overall final drive ratio with a vehicle that has taller gears and end up with a truck still able to start off with heavy loads and still get respectable fuel economy when cruising.

Having said that, I think that this design is prevalent in all manufacturers GM, Ford and Chrysler. It looks like the test was fair as Ford took the tallest gears available from each company when they conducted their test. It isn't Ford's problem that GM and Dodge didn't have the option of 3.31 gears on their trucks. The tallest gears that you could get with a GM was 3.73 at the time I believe while 3.42 was as tall as you could get in a Dodge. I think what is being presented is that if you want to get the best fuel economy the Ford offers a taller gear ratio for the rear axle that is still capable of pulling a heavy load. I wish GM offered a 3.42 ratio for their Duramax equipped trucks but it appears that at the time of the test they didn't, so I can't fault Ford for that, and I like GM trucks. I think it would be a less fair test if Ford compared one of their trucks equipped with a 3.31 rear axle against a Dodge and a Chevy with 4.10's knowing that a lower gear ratio was available, but that does not appear to be the case here.

In the end just because Ford has an edge in some areas, it doesn't mean that they make the best truck for me. Perhaps GM or Dodge have the edge in other areas and the advantage for me in those areas make another truck the overall best. To me the new Ford is not a good looking truck, it's not so bad that I wouldn't buy one just based on looks (like a Pontiac Aztek for example) but it is by far the least attractive 2011 heavy duty pickup in my eyes. Meanwhile Dodge is the best looking truck by far to me over Ford and Chevy but if I'm buying a 2011 I want a truck with urea injection as it seems to significantly improve fuel economy, so that's a strike against Dodge to me. Meanwhile I live in the Northeast where there's a lot of snow, and GM has had some serious issues with their Duramax in the snow so if that hasn't been totally addressed for 2011 then that's a big strike against them to me. So I guess what I'm saying is Ford, GM or Chrysler can jump up and down shouting horsepower numbers or towing numbers or mpg numbers whatever and those numbers don't mean a darn thing by themselves. The only FACT is that there is NO BEST PICKUP on the market. There may be a best pickup for Lt CHEG, and a best pickup for DMace and a best pickup for Diamond Pilot etc. etc. and most likely they are not the same truck. To me arguing numbers over any one vehicle proves little, especially considering just how capable and impressive each company's trucks are. I honestly don't let any person's brand preference or their defense of the same bother me, and it's sad to see people getting angry over the subject. I've had good luck with GM products but I have NO loyalty in this day and age, just like no company has any loyalty to me. I'll buy what's best for me regardless of whether there's a bow tie, a blue oval or horns on the front of the truck and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if that truck isn't the best truck for anyone else.

Very well said. Can't we all just get along? :laughing:
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #38  
You guys need more ratios in your trucks:
For example the new ZF 8HP 8 speed automatic
ZF Friedrichshafen AG | 8-speed automatic transmission

Or the new 7 speed dual clutch transmission, that combines the fuel efficiency of a direct drive manual, to the comfort of an automatic.
ZF Friedrichshafen AG | 7-speed dual-clutch transmission

Or for the heavier Diesel pickups, an automated synchro ZF AS-tronic with 12 speeds ;)
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/innovations/as_tronic/low_consumption/low_consumption.html

It would at least make all axle ratio vs. fuel consumption debates needless. ;)
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #39  
first off i am a GM man. and i do have some biases. i also have a 94 F350 with 265,000 still running strong that seems to never break down. the 94 is a truck Ford got right. it could use a little more power but i think would do even better with more gears. when upgrading last time from the 3500 D/A 4x4 chevy i went with the chevy 4500. i did test a ford F550 and for my needs the Chevy did better. the reasons were as follows. Chevy has a 5:13 rear end and i tow heavy. most of my towing is local and 2 lane highways here in the mountains so a higher cruising speed wasn't needed. the chevy was the heavier truck in weight. this makes a diffrence when towing on steep gravel roads. i am usually towing 6 tons so a 6 ton truck has better traction than a 4 1/2-5 ton truck. i can't recite the physics on that. i will say on a steep hill breaking loose is scary. i also was extremely impressed with the duramax/allison combo as i had no issues with it in a previous truck. Ford was still trying to live down the 6.0. dodge never entered the equation although the cummins is a fine engine. at the time dodge had no medium duties on the used market. have been very pleased with the 4500, it has been an overachiever. when towing 9 tons back from S.C. i was able to maintain 70 mph up the saluda grade and over sams gap on interstate 26. i ended up backing off to 65 to take it easier. coming down the Tennesse side i was able to dab the break once at the top of the mountain and let the engine braking do the rest. each of the big three is a making amazing trucks now compared to just a few years back. as much as i like mine i can see why others might prefer the smaller cab medium duties. for some the other brands may fit better. it really means very little as long as the truck delivers for the owner.
 
   / Duramax towing MPG #40  
i noticed something that nobody else seems to have...

if you cut it back from 65 to 55, you get WAYYYYYYY better mileage.:laughing:

my old cummins is a beater, but it always gets me there... 18 if i'm in a blind panic, 24 if i take my time.

towing 13/17
 
 
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