Feeding the deer during heavy snowfall...

[penokee]

I rambled a little about deer starving, in my previous post, but am posting a picture I took last winter about 3 miles from my camp.
WARNING! The picture may be a little gruesome to some, but it is real world and what's happening to deer when they starve.
There's no waste in the woods, as you can see sign of the predators that are feeding on the remains, but I have a feeling that if the deer had a say on things - he'd rather not be in this situation.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Junkman]

Bob........ glad to hear that we are both on the same page again. Around here, the deer are fair game for the coyotes and I can hear them screaming some nights as they take down a deer. The hunters take there toll also and I haven't seen an over population of deer in town, however, there have been a over population of school age children filling up the school system causing the older residents of town to leave as a result of higher school taxes. I will feed the deer and hope that the other problem will resolve itself in my lifetime....... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green">
Bob........ glad to hear that we are both on the same page again </font>

Oh yea sure, I'm sure that fact that we disagreed had your stomach churning in all sorts of bad ways /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I have some pretty strong opinions on both sides of the issues here. First there are the deer, and I stand by all I wrote regarding the damage to the ecosystem we are doing by feeding them. I also say we created much of the problem, so I'll agree with you that human encroachment and human population growth is an issue to be seriously considered.

As for the coyotes, we have them howling in packs a few nights each week, and several of the neighbor ladies were all upset one fine summer afternoon when 3 coyotes dropped a deer in the field behind my home WHILE THEY WATCHED and suggested I should go help the thing. Yea, I'm walking into a pack of wild hungry coyotes and disturbing theim during dinner. Sure I am. But that said, I don't see them making any sort of a dent in the deer population, and they certainly are not controlling the herd size. The front bumpers and windshields of cars probably kill more deer around Indiana than the coyotes do.

 

[Docsknotinn]

Bob, I'd have to say IMO there is merit to both sides of this debate. It really depends on your location and environment. I'm just north of Detroit right on a Metro Park. The deer are grossly overpopulated here to the extent we have made national news for having hunts in the park etc to get the situation under control. Here I would certainly not feed them.
At our property in Cheboygen I definitely supplement when I can but I greatly prefer to improve the natural habitat. We do this with food plots and timber management. Next year we will cut 10 acres of Cedar and add two more tillable acres. I wish you were closer so I could show you our place. My ponderosa sets in the middle of 34,000 private gated acres that is surrounded by another roughly 40k of state and Federal land. Its a very unique ecosystem. The coyotes over the last two years have made a enormous impact on the deer herd. They are especially lethal on each years fawn crop. In the last year I have come to belive the only good 'yote is a dead one.
The other thing I would add about nutrition is that corn while not ideal is better than nothing. Candy bars and McyD's aren't good for us either but in moderation will not kill you. Unless a animal is physically starving it has very good natural instincts about what to and what not to eat. Some of my neighbors put out AlfAlfa bails in the fall. The deer do not touch them until the snow melts. I would add that if I could get the deer chow for the price of corn or even slightly more I would certainly go that route. Thats a product I hope we see in Mi in the near future.

 

[Varmintmist]

I put out a little corn (8.27/100lb) for them to snack on when the show turns to hardpack. Until then let them browse. I'll put out about a 2 gallon bucket twice a week or more. My feeder is a 5 gallon bucket with a 3 inch hole cut in the bottom and tied to a tree. The corn runs out the hole when the deer start kicking the bucket. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Gives them something to do.

Anyone who says that corn isnt good for deer has never seen corn fed deer in the fields compared to mountain deer.

Our deer population in PA was, according to the PA game commission, to high. I never saw the overpopulation. All of the deer I saw were healthy, and there were not enough deer on my pproperty. I know that because I have a lot of poison ivy. Deer eat poison ivy. To much ivy = not enough deer. Per the state forester that I had out to my place.

Anyway, the PAGC started a deer slaughter and the population has been pretty well hammered in most counties. There are not the deer that there was 3 years ago. If this keeps up taking the kids hunting in 4 years will be a waste of time.

The PAGC has also started a antler restriction to get bigger racks. Personally I would rather be able to get my kid into a position to shoot a spike then wait 5 years before even seeing a 8 point.

Oh yeah, the antler restriction has so many holes in it that the little buck are getting torn up anyway so it is just a deer elimination plan. Not to mention the deer that are shot and then the hunter sees that the first point was 3/4 of a inch instead of a inch and lets it lay. It isnt right, but the PAGC said a mistake kill would coast a 25 dollar fine. So far no honest mistake that I have read about has cost less than 500. I'd let one lay to for 500.

 

[stevenf]

Varmintmist, If you have a source for fresh corn and its not stored or processed at a feed mill there is nothing wrong with feeding deer corn to draw them in to look at or in Texas so we can blow holes in them as bateing is allowed in Texas. But your comment of feeding them corn was good is unlikely concerning most peoples abilities to buy clean unstored and unprocessed corn which is where the problem lies. Corn contains many things after storing in the form of parasites and deseases that are bad for deer and corn doesn't supply the nutrients required to keep them healthy although they like it and they'll eat it just like a kid eating candy. Here is a USDA site" http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap41.html " that goes into the problems of aflatoxins it goes on to talk about a lot on the subject and if you do a google search for it you will undoubtedly agree that its important to store all feeds properly the reason corn is especially bad is it is most often stored improperly and according to USDA findings it is used for deer corn many times as a result of having been found to contain aflatoxins and failed to meet human consumpsion guidelines. The reason goat feed is safer is it turns over quicker and is stored indoors whereas lots of retailers store corn outside where the bags get wet and mildewy as well and the goat feed also contains the nutrients needed to sustain life not just giving them a treat. My point also is at least here in Texas corn cost roughly $5.50 a bag and goat feed that does contain all the vitamins and minerals needed for the deer to exist even if it didn't eat anything else cost the same or slightly less why not feed them the goat feed if your concern has anything to do with their health over the long term. Yes deer will eat corn until there is not a speck left, is it good for them no, for sure not especially if your trying to help them survive. My hunters use corn to get them in close to shoot them but when I feed I use a mixture of goat feed, minerals blocks designed especially for deer and food plots that I have planted by hand in the past that this year I'll be doing with a tractor. In response to the folks who don't agree with feeding all I can say is I'm sorry I do own a ranch where paid hunters help put food on our table so the healthier, heavier antlered deer bring in the best money so I make sure mine are eating right. As for the predators being gone we have 2 mountain lions that call our ranch home the hunters are forbidden to shoot them. That said most of the wild predators are gone but I'd say in place of Wolves and Mountain Lions humanity has introduced their own brand of predator and it hunts at night with tires instead of paws and if you don't keep an eye on fido you'll have the same problem that one of our neighbors has she lost 200 lambs last year alone to packs of wild dogs and most of them have collars on and you can bet a fair amount go home to their owners when the're thru hunting alas the predators are back they just sleep under the truck instead of in a cave.
Steve

 

[DaMadman]

Junkman, I agree with you 100% on never moving to Maryland. It is so dang overpopulated were I live it takes approx an hour to an hour and a half to get a seat for dinner at any resteraunt within 25 miles of my house on a Friday or Saturday night. People packed on top of more people and it really makes me ill to see some of the old homestead farms that have been on a family for 150 years turned into 100's of $400,000 homes.

I wasn't trying to condemn anyone that feeds deer. Like I said I have thought about it myself but just don't because I have seen what i does to the populations and then things just get worse from there.

There is a subdivision right down the road from me where there are at least 4 herds of deer ranging in size from 20 to 30 deer each roaming peoples back yards. When the people first moved in, they thought it was great to see the deer eating in the back yards and feeding them was great because they could watch the deer even more. Now the people can't have shrubs or gardens or fruit trees and have even had prblems with bucks during Rut horning up the side of thier cars.

Honestly wasn't putting anyone down for feeding the deer. Just trying to share some of the problems I have seen arise from it.

Just so you know what you were saying about Maryland is truth. I don't see it being long before you will have to go to a museum around here to see a deer or a tree, it is really getting that bad and that is the reason I am looking at moving the heck out of here within the next 5 to 10 year. If it weren't for certain ties to the area I might already be gone.

 

[Varmintmist]

Steve, the corn I get is from a feed mill. It is critter grade and does not sit outside. I dont think I would eat it as the rat poop per lb would be a bit high /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[stevenf]

Varmintmist, Whats wrong with a little rat poop the FDA has an allowable portion for all Human consumption food products.
ew its doo! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

Steve,

Unless a deer is vastly different than a cow and I'm not sure about that, corn is very good for them. The toxins you talk about are a reality but that is in moldy corn. You don't get the toxins in most corn. If the corn looks moldy or smells bad then don't feed it. I hate to tell you but the primary ingredient in every processed feedstuff is corn, even dogfood. As a food source corn is an excellent source of carbohydrates and a medium source of protein. The next best feedstuff if you're feeding grain is oats. Oats are higher in protein and have less carbohydrates. Every feedlot in the country uses corn in probably 80-90% of the cows grain diet. The rest is added protein, vitamins, minerals, and some oats, but mostly corn. The protein is what will give your deer the nice antlers but they will get big and fat on corn just as easily as they will oats.