FEL suddenly stopped working. Power steering still works. Fel moves a little when i turn the steering wheel. No previous issues with fel but i have not owned tractor long. There is no strainer in the hydraulic tank with this model. Oill levels are correct. From what i have read on this forum i suspect the steering /divertor valve at fault. I removed it with intention of testing and claening as i thought it would be easier than the fel controller. The trouble is i have no idea how to clean, test or verify if it is working or stuck. Any ideas?
Fel stopped working
- Thread starter Jimmy254
- Start date
Thomas
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 29,794
- Location
- Lebanon,NH.
- Tractor
- Kubota B2650HSD w/Frontloader & CC LTX1046 & Craftman T2200 lawn mower.
Check disconnect fitting.
piper184
Gold Member
Thomas is right, the OEM connectors were a known weak point. However, if that was the culprit it would likely stop the steering from working as well. The usual failure mode is that the internal valves close and dead head the pump, taking out the seal.
Disconnect and re-connect the couplers. Better yet replace both sets with domestic made units.
It is more likely that you have either dirt in the loader valve or the relief valve in the loader control valve has come loose. Take the crown nut off and see if the adjuster has backed all the way out. This is also a common issue with the OEM loader valves and it is an easy fix.
To really troubleshoot the issue you need a hydraulic pressure gauge mounted on a Tee with a set of quick connects to match the tractor. Then you can plug it in to the supply line and check the pressure, then swap it to the return line (back to the priority valve) and check the pressure there.
Priority valves do fail, but not as often as the loader control valve. Also, it is after the loader, so if it failed, it is more likely to stop the steering, it should have no effect on the loader which gets it's pressure directly from the pump.
With no pickup screen in the tank, is there a suction side filter? Some tractors had this feature. If so and it is restricting the flow to the pump, it could result in low pressure. No screen or filter means you are circulating dirt through the system and the loader valve has some pretty tight tolerances and dirt that will pass through the pump will plug the control valve spools.
As far as I know, there are no replacement parts available for the internals of the loader valve. Also there are no diagrams of it either. If you do decide to take it apart, work on a wide clean surface with a rag or towel. Take lots of pics to help put it back together.
Let us know if you have any questions and please keep us posted on your progress. It will help others later.
Disconnect and re-connect the couplers. Better yet replace both sets with domestic made units.
It is more likely that you have either dirt in the loader valve or the relief valve in the loader control valve has come loose. Take the crown nut off and see if the adjuster has backed all the way out. This is also a common issue with the OEM loader valves and it is an easy fix.
To really troubleshoot the issue you need a hydraulic pressure gauge mounted on a Tee with a set of quick connects to match the tractor. Then you can plug it in to the supply line and check the pressure, then swap it to the return line (back to the priority valve) and check the pressure there.
Priority valves do fail, but not as often as the loader control valve. Also, it is after the loader, so if it failed, it is more likely to stop the steering, it should have no effect on the loader which gets it's pressure directly from the pump.
With no pickup screen in the tank, is there a suction side filter? Some tractors had this feature. If so and it is restricting the flow to the pump, it could result in low pressure. No screen or filter means you are circulating dirt through the system and the loader valve has some pretty tight tolerances and dirt that will pass through the pump will plug the control valve spools.
As far as I know, there are no replacement parts available for the internals of the loader valve. Also there are no diagrams of it either. If you do decide to take it apart, work on a wide clean surface with a rag or towel. Take lots of pics to help put it back together.
Let us know if you have any questions and please keep us posted on your progress. It will help others later.
there is a suction side spin on filter. I dont know the age or condition. Had been planning to change the hyd oil and filter and to learn about the hyd system when this happened so good timing i guess. Havent ever touched the hydraulic system other than check the oil and fiddle with that valve that controls the rate of the 3pt lifter descent. I agree that to analyse this properly i need a pressure gauge T and that the QD's are known issues. If you suspect the PV valve is working I think i will take a picture of the priority valve ports and put it back and focus on the loader control as you suggest. The PV is expensive part and unless someone can explain how it works and what to look for i'll leave it alone. Ill have more questions as i proceed.
ive attached pictures of the priority val e ports. The big port with circlip is the inlet port from the loader control valve. The other single port goes to the rear 3pt lifter. The dual ports go to the steering wheel box. Im only posting the pics on the off chance anyone can see anything wrong when compared to a new valve. I probably wasted my time removing this.
Attachments
oldnslo
Super Member
Most equipment the steering would be first valve in circuit and then feed the loader and 3 point so that steering always has priority. Chinese tractor certainly could be different in design.
I should have mentioned that i think my FEL controller is the OEM. I have attached a couple of pics of it. Piper - you mentioned taking a crown nut off and checking if the adjuster has backed all the way off. Can you elaborate on that? I cant see a crown nut and not sure what and where the adjuster is.
Attachments
The more i think of it the less i understand what on earth that priority valve does and why. I have attached a drawing of what my circuit looks like. There are two ports from the PV going to the steering box. What do they do? One must provide pressure. The other seems tees off to the steering box and the fluid tank.
Attachments
piper184
Gold Member
I've never understood completely how priority valves work but suspect there is some kind of double relief valve buried in there somehow.
Some Jinma tractors had a separate hydraulic system for steering. Pump, tank, everything.
Some of them had a dual pump where one supplied the hydraulics and one supplied the steering but there was only one pump housing on the tractor.
Some of them have a single pump with the priority valve.
It helps to remember that it was designed as a tractor with power steering, a 3 point lift and some remote ports on the rear. The loader was a total add-on in all cases.
I've never completely understood how the steering box works either but have observed that you can turn the steering wheel round and round, the only stops on the system are at the linkages on the axle. I think the box works by equalizing the pressure on both sides of the steering cylinder. Turn the wheel one way and the system is out of balance so the box sends fluid to one side of the cylinder and dumps fluid from the other side until things are equal again.
Without power steering (older tractors) the hydraulics just were there for the 3 point and remotes. The pressure relief valve for the entire system was in the 3 point control valve. It is set by adding or removing shims under a spring and is basically a pop-off valve. The pump pushes and if the control valve is in neutral the fluid has to go somewhere. It unseats the relief valve and exits back to the tank. Most simple circuit imaginable.
Now add power steering. If it were just tee'd into the circuit AND you were lifting the 3 point while trying to steer the flow would be divided between the two paths back to the tank and the steering would suffer loss of pressure.
As long as you are not turning the steering wheel, there is no need for flow through the steering box so everything just goes to the 3 point normally. Now enter the priority valve. I has to determine if the steering needs pressure and/or flow then decide how to provide it. If the demands of turning and lifting the 3 point (or supplying the remotes) exceeds the needs of the steering the priority valve restricts flow to the rear until the steering is satisfied.
Also remember the remote ports are not like live remotes you might be familiar with on domestic tractors. They only supply pressure out one port when the 3 point cylinder is completely extended and the lever is held in the "raise" position. The other port is strictly a return to tank and can not provide pressure for a dual action cylinder. Topic for another discussion.
The priority valve just gives priority to the steering over the rear end hydraulics. It knows nothing of the FEL.
continued in next post...
Some Jinma tractors had a separate hydraulic system for steering. Pump, tank, everything.
Some of them had a dual pump where one supplied the hydraulics and one supplied the steering but there was only one pump housing on the tractor.
Some of them have a single pump with the priority valve.
It helps to remember that it was designed as a tractor with power steering, a 3 point lift and some remote ports on the rear. The loader was a total add-on in all cases.
I've never completely understood how the steering box works either but have observed that you can turn the steering wheel round and round, the only stops on the system are at the linkages on the axle. I think the box works by equalizing the pressure on both sides of the steering cylinder. Turn the wheel one way and the system is out of balance so the box sends fluid to one side of the cylinder and dumps fluid from the other side until things are equal again.
Without power steering (older tractors) the hydraulics just were there for the 3 point and remotes. The pressure relief valve for the entire system was in the 3 point control valve. It is set by adding or removing shims under a spring and is basically a pop-off valve. The pump pushes and if the control valve is in neutral the fluid has to go somewhere. It unseats the relief valve and exits back to the tank. Most simple circuit imaginable.
Now add power steering. If it were just tee'd into the circuit AND you were lifting the 3 point while trying to steer the flow would be divided between the two paths back to the tank and the steering would suffer loss of pressure.
As long as you are not turning the steering wheel, there is no need for flow through the steering box so everything just goes to the 3 point normally. Now enter the priority valve. I has to determine if the steering needs pressure and/or flow then decide how to provide it. If the demands of turning and lifting the 3 point (or supplying the remotes) exceeds the needs of the steering the priority valve restricts flow to the rear until the steering is satisfied.
Also remember the remote ports are not like live remotes you might be familiar with on domestic tractors. They only supply pressure out one port when the 3 point cylinder is completely extended and the lever is held in the "raise" position. The other port is strictly a return to tank and can not provide pressure for a dual action cylinder. Topic for another discussion.
The priority valve just gives priority to the steering over the rear end hydraulics. It knows nothing of the FEL.
continued in next post...