FELs and digging

[TxSam]

I dug a grave for a horse a while ago. 72" bucket width. 6' deep. Make sure you have extra weight on the front to get down-force & 4wd to back out of the hole. keep the ramp angle shallow. Necessity is the Mother of Invention. I also recently dug up a water line break with my bucket. In this case the bucket size gives you a hole big enough to stand for repairing the line and for getting to the exact location of the break.

I have done the same with my old TC35. As said, use common sense - keep the entry slope shallow enough to drive in and out. Very little drama. Mine was in black Texas soil with a small amount of limestone, hit solid limestone at 6', conveniently, and had no tooth bar.

 

[charlessenf]

I kind of think "front end loader" means an implement on the front end for picking up and moving loads

Putting a tooth bar on my bucket could be taking a bit of a chance with it, right?

Well, I move loads with my [AFFILIATE=1, nofollow=true, newwindow=true, title="Kubota"]Kubota[/AFFILIATE] B7800, logs lately - well sections of logs mostly. The teeth I installed were added to help digging out the area behind my barn/shop. They also allow me to carry a slightly larger load of logs, blocks, whatever as they effectively extend the front edge of the bucket.

The area I'm enlarging started out about five feet wide with the edge opposite the barn a ninety-eight degree or so 'slope' where the mountain was cut to flatten an area for the barn and house and so forth.

With teh rain and snow and freeze and thaw, the edge of the mountain keeps breaking away, trees at the edge tipping over and dislocating even more soil. I run a box blade or a scrape blade along to catch and accumulate the soil and collect it with my toothy loader bucket.

As well, I run the teeth into the face of the slope where I am able to get the tractor at a right angle to it and drag teh teeth down the face to dislodge more dirt and accelerate nature's inexorable efforts to flatten everything

Then, I use the loader to collect the fallen material and dump it where fill will do the most good.

Slowly, surely, step by step . . .

Over the years I've more than doubled the width back there and can easily circumnavigate the barn with the tractor and CAN AM Bombardier.

I can move mountains!

 

[Vigo327]

So many variables.. I have not done much digging with my fels (do have a backhoe and a trencher) but i agree with those who said everything has limits and if you stay within them the equipment will not be damaged, and none of those limits are lower than a shovel. So ‘all loaders can dig to varying extents’.

As with lots of things you can do with a loader, it’s highly dependent on technique. I dont claim to be a pro but i would caution anyone to ask for advice before blaming their equipment for ‘not being able to do something’. If we could all telepathically teach each other everything we all know we’d all be King Digging Badass Of The World just by logging onto tractorbynet but since that’s not possible, we have to ask, read, and listen until we get.. close enough.

 

[SmallChange]

Having started this thread, I guess I'm about where I was in the first place. I thought it possible that there was some binary distinction, like FELs have to be "dig rated" or "pile rated" and I just didn't know where to look. But it's about like I was figuring when I did a big project this past summer and early fall. Well, big for me -- remember, I'm pretty small change.

I bought my spouse a greenhouse, 14' long and 8' wide, that was delivered on a car carrier type truck with a flat bed that tilts and extends/retracts. It had an open bottom and I had to prepare a site for it. It was going to go next to the pole barn which is open on one long side and closed on the others. Regrettably, the pole barn was sited such that the gentle slope goes into the barn, so heavy rain would run in there. I used my FEL to scrape and lower the soil in front of the barn, so now there's a slight slope going out of the barn and the rain doesn't run in any more. I used this soil to build up the site for the greenhouse. I piled it and shaped it and wheelrolled it to densify it, then I made a perimeter base out of 2 layers of PT 2X6 with heavy waterproofing. I poured a pretty crushed stone she liked into this base, a bag at a time from Lowes, and I think I wound up using 40 or 50 bags, more than I expected. I brought them 11 bags at a time from the store in my station wagon on my plastic pallet, and used my pallet forks to carry the pallet from the car to the site, reaching over the site so I could drag and drop the bags (which are beyond my personal lifting limit). I also set 14 square stones into the crushed stone, again from the pallet forks.

What I learned during this process is that it's quite difficult to get my bucket to bite into my soil, a horrible mix of bank gravel and clay. I used my TSC ripper/subsoiler to break it up a bit first. It took many hours to get all this the way I wanted it, mostly because I was just learning as I went, but also because this was difficult soil for my CUT. There were also big tree roots in a few spots that required loads of elbow grease and usually some pulling to remove so they wouldn't totally stop the blade. I think it might have been worthwhile to get a tooth bar. But what would have been better would have been a box blade, with scarifiers, so I could drag up piles and then FEL them into place. Though, I don't know where else I would use a box blade. If I think of one more job of this size that would benefit from one, I'll get one, but I don't predict that will happen.

I worked slowly. I think it's really hard on equipment to get a running start and collide with the project, using the machine momentum to get a bigger bite, and I don't do that. I moved slowly, not least because I'm just learning and I'm not all that coordinated to begin with. I was guessing I was OK with this approach, and I still think I am. Certainly, nothing seemed to break or look different after the job was done. But if I went into business leveling pole barn approaches and creating greenhouse sites, I would definitely get a bigger machine. And I'm not going into business.

 

[RjCorazza]

@SmallChange
Going back to my initial response of your being on the right track...
Your description of the project is exactly how most operators would have tackled the job without throwing larger and more expensive equipment into the mix.
There are plenty of implements mentioned in this thread that make ground engagement work easier (or possible) with smaller machines. A box blade with rippers down will anchor a machine pretty quick, so a single shank subsoiler was a great option. One could also just use one or two lowered rippers on a box blade... There are just soooo many options if you don't mind spending a little more time with non industrial (expensive) equipment. I got a WHOLE lot of work done 25 years ago with a small 19hp B8200 and a 3 point scoop.
Thanks for the update on your project.

 

[edgarrian]

I kind of think "front end loader" means an implement on the front end for picking up and moving loads, from a pile. I fear my little CUT bucket (with a straight edge) isn't meant for cutting into the earth, and if I try to do that, I should go easy, because I'm pushing it out of its intended comfort zone.

But I also think a "backhoe loader" that has teeth on the backhoe bucket and ALSO the front end loader bucket is indeed meant for cutting into the earth. So, it's heavier as well as having teeth.

These seem contradictory. So, how do you tell if a bucket on the front is intended for actual digging? Is it the teeth? Is it the fact that there's also a backhoe on the other end? Putting a tooth bar on my bucket could be taking a bit of a chance with it, right?

Enlighten me please? Thanks!

I didnt read any of the responses in this thread but growing up on a farm and running heavy equipment all my life. I can tell you that you can dig a hole with a FEL. Does it take skill? Absolutely. Its just like moving a pile of dirt. The guys that can run equipment won't dig holes with there tires while trying to get a full bucket of material. This person will get a full bucket of material without spinning tires. When you spin the tires you create holes so every time you come back to get more material you bounce around. The experienced guy doesn't do that. Its smooth. I have used my tractor to cut into my neighbors virgin ground on a few different projects. He's always said man you make that look easy. I just shrug my shoulders and say its a lot of seat time. So he eventually bought a tractor. I still go over to fix some of his messes b/c it may look easy but it aint.

 

[wawajake]

Good points Edgarrian ! All I can add to advise the Original poster.... is also get a toothbar, they make so much difference and most all types are easy enough to take on or off as needed.

 

[DaBear3428]

Having started this thread, I guess I'm about where I was in the first place. I thought it possible that there was some binary distinction, like FELs have to be "dig rated" or "pile rated" and I just didn't know where to look. But it's about like I was figuring when I did a big project this past summer and early fall. Well, big for me -- remember, I'm pretty small change.

I bought my spouse a greenhouse, 14' long and 8' wide, that was delivered on a car carrier type truck with a flat bed that tilts and extends/retracts. It had an open bottom and I had to prepare a site for it. It was going to go next to the pole barn which is open on one long side and closed on the others. Regrettably, the pole barn was sited such that the gentle slope goes into the barn, so heavy rain would run in there. I used my FEL to scrape and lower the soil in front of the barn, so now there's a slight slope going out of the barn and the rain doesn't run in any more. I used this soil to build up the site for the greenhouse. I piled it and shaped it and wheelrolled it to densify it, then I made a perimeter base out of 2 layers of PT 2X6 with heavy waterproofing. I poured a pretty crushed stone she liked into this base, a bag at a time from Lowes, and I think I wound up using 40 or 50 bags, more than I expected. I brought them 11 bags at a time from the store in my station wagon on my plastic pallet, and used my pallet forks to carry the pallet from the car to the site, reaching over the site so I could drag and drop the bags (which are beyond my personal lifting limit). I also set 14 square stones into the crushed stone, again from the pallet forks.

What I learned during this process is that it's quite difficult to get my bucket to bite into my soil, a horrible mix of bank gravel and clay. I used my TSC ripper/subsoiler to break it up a bit first. It took many hours to get all this the way I wanted it, mostly because I was just learning as I went, but also because this was difficult soil for my CUT. There were also big tree roots in a few spots that required loads of elbow grease and usually some pulling to remove so they wouldn't totally stop the blade. I think it might have been worthwhile to get a tooth bar. But what would have been better would have been a box blade, with scarifiers, so I could drag up piles and then FEL them into place. Though, I don't know where else I would use a box blade. If I think of one more job of this size that would benefit from one, I'll get one, but I don't predict that will happen.

I worked slowly. I think it's really hard on equipment to get a running start and collide with the project, using the machine momentum to get a bigger bite, and I don't do that. I moved slowly, not least because I'm just learning and I'm not all that coordinated to begin with. I was guessing I was OK with this approach, and I still think I am. Certainly, nothing seemed to break or look different after the job was done. But if I went into business leveling pole barn approaches and creating greenhouse sites, I would definitely get a bigger machine. And I'm not going into business.

you are on the right track, also keep in mind that there are CUTs and there are CUTs you are on the light end, some of us are on the heavy end. the weight difference alters the outcome more than you would expect. as you are learning yes you can dig with a CUT with respect for its limits. there is no cutoff between dig nodig all will dig to some extent but some conditions will exclude the lighter CUTs from the work.
with my heavy CUT i point at the ground and dig it out, no issues but if my soil was different that might not be the case. is my 5145 an excavator? no it is not, but neither is a shovel, all 3 will dig a hole in the ground.

 

[SmallChange]

also keep in mind that there are CUTs and there are CUTs you are on the light end, some of us are on the heavy end. the weight difference alters the outcome more than you would expect.

Oh, I would expect it to alter the outcome a very great deal! I would absolutely have preferred a heavier machine. I mean, I'm a normal tractor admirer, bigger is better. But, then, tuppence is tuppence, right? And I'm just small change.

I had a 4 hp riding mower when I was little, the blade removed. One of my friends had a mini-bike. Another had a go-cart. But I loved that thing. With that as my first experience, I'm appreciative that I wound up 50+ years later with what I do have. And I completely believe you about the weight!

 

[SmallChange]

One could also just use one or two lowered rippers on a box blade...

Yes, this might have been my best option had I wanted to upgrade a little. A box blade with only one lowered ripper is still faster than the ripper plus the FEL, because you wind up with a little pile on every pass.

And I did come at least somewhat close to that upgrade.