Buying Advice First Tractor - Which way to go?

[newbury]

I know I wasn't trying to compare the GT to an SCUT as even close to equals. My point was you can get garden tractors (basically riding mowers really) with more HP than small CUTs and get nowhere fast under the wrong conditions due to the lack of weight which was the part of the post I replied to and agreed with - weight matters - and it was an example of that.

But ... MSRP on the Kubota site says the 1860 is a REALLY REALLY expensive lawn mower. The 1860 with turf tires and a 54" deck is over $11K. If you move up to the 2360, same size deck and a loader valve (no loader) it is $13.5K. Yes the 1860 weighs over twice what my GT weighs and you can add implements to it like a small loader and it has a 3 PT, neither of which can be had for my GT and with the $2K blower would very likely handle the areas I have trouble with. The 1860 seems to have been replaced by the 1870 which you can buy without a deck for "only" $10K, $11.8K with the 54" deck - $9K more than my "biggest GT Sears makes".

Do you understand the difference in torque and capability of the diesel engine? Far more power at lower rpm's. And as soon as you start adding 3 PT implements you have a world of options. The 24HP gasser shouldn't be called a tractor, it's only got a few uses.

A tractor is an engineering vehicle specifically designed to deliver a high tractive effort (or torque) at slow speeds, for the purposes of hauling a trailer or machinery used in agriculture or construction.

Tractor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have to wonder:

How the heck do you get a REAL tractor (*) that the OP and I need for anywhere NEAR his $15K mark shy of "well used" if the smallest of the small costs $13K with a 48" bucket (no mower or blower)?
<snip>

I bought my B7610 for $11.5K, that included a $3,000 trailer and a $500 box blade.
Just before I paid $12K for my 50HP M4700 Barlows had an excellent condition LIGHTLY used L4630 for about $17K delivered. Right now they list an L3540 for $17.5K.
So the bargains are out there - but not usually in the spring time when everyone wants a tractor.

And what do you mean by

shy of "well used"

?

A properly maintained utility tractor can last a LONG time, 1,000 hours on the clock is just a start.

 

[bruceha2000]

Do you understand the difference in torque and capability of the diesel engine? Far more power at lower rpm's. And as soon as you start adding 3 PT implements you have a world of options. The 24HP gasser shouldn't be called a tractor, it's only got a few uses.

Yep, guess I shouldn't have popped in with my comment about the GT problems related to weight (or lack thereof) in a real tractor forum It really was just a "yep weight matters" comment. The GT has plenty of power but doesn't have the traction necessary for some things. I do understand that the GT isn't a real tractor and has little use other than mowing, blowing snow (on a relative flat it turns out), pulling the dump cart and possibly roto-tilling. It was a whole lot easier bringing the 4.5 cords of wood from the barn to the house over the winter this year than pushing it in the garden cart as I have in years past though

I bought my B7610 for $11.5K, that included a $3,000 trailer and a $500 box blade.
Just before I paid $12K for my 50HP M4700 Barlows had an excellent condition LIGHTLY used L4630 for about $17K delivered. Right now they list an L3540 for $17.5K.
So the bargains are out there - but not usually in the spring time when everyone wants a tractor.

How old were these machines and how many hours? I understand there are bargains IF you know what the heck you are doing (which I don't). Wouldn't want to get a deal and then find out it needs this and that and the other thing (now or soon) which adds up the $$ and down time. Like the OP, I am fairly handy mechanically (though I don't have much experience with engines and hydraulics) and also like the OP, have zero time for a "project".

And what do you mean by shy of "well used"

A properly maintained utility tractor can last a LONG time, 1,000 hours on the clock is just a start.

OK, how about OLD! I'm guessing one doesn't find many "couple of years old" 40 HP tractors for a lot less than the price of a new one. And while a properly maintained tractor can last decades, but you don't know that it WAS properly maintained for the last 15 or 20 years. Well, maybe YOU would be able to see that, but I would not. I do know that some stuff "wears out" even if not used, like hoses, seals and tires.

 

[vtsnowedin]

A lot of Ag tractors outlast their owners. I'd take that the first owner kept it until the day he died as a good sign. Something with the right number of hours on it to show it was used each year as planned is better then some miracle tractor that was parked for twenty years in a barn and never used. And before you buy some lower tier tractor that is thirty years old be sure someone still stocks the parts for it.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
How old were these machines and how many hours? <snip>

What does it matter? Just dig up my old threads. It seems you'll just find something else to complain about.

The PRESENT machine at Barlow Equipment Inventory | Barlow Equipment is listed as having 483.2 hours and Barlow has an excellent reputation on this board for delivering quality tractors, so one doesn't have to worry about problems.

My main point is that it is possible to buy used equipment and save a lot of $$ if you can search for bargains rather than "have to have it now" and new.

That new tractor smell doesn't last long.

I fully understand the pleasure of buying a new XYZ but the OP seems to have a budget and the L3540 is on the lower edge of what he needs.

I'm sure there are Kioti's, LS's, Mahindra's that can be found used for similar prices but new for $17.5 K is limited. Plus your dealing with Tier 4.

 

[blucoondawg]

Whether you buy new or used, unless you plan to trade your tractor off every few years you will eventually have to replace hoses, tires, belts, etc. no different than a passenger car, most of that isn't a huge expense other than tires and you should be able to tell a good tire from a junk tire on a used machine even if you know absolutely nothing about tractors

 

[newbury]

Whether you buy new or used, unless you plan to trade your tractor off every few years you will eventually have to replace hoses, tires, belts, etc. no different than a passenger car, most of that isn't a huge expense other than tires and you should be able to tell a good tire from a junk tire on a used machine even if you know absolutely nothing about tractors

Another important point is to get a sense for the cost of replacement of these things.

Ballpark cost for my 50HP utility tractor:
Tires -
Front ~$300
Rear ~$500
Hoses - $50@
Fluid change -
Hydraulics - $150 to $300 (can take 15 gallons @ $10 to $20/gallon)
Engine oil - ~ 2 gallons @ $10 to $20/gallon
Manuals - $150

Thus it's easy to spend a few thousand on easy to replace normal wear items.

When I was searching for my M4700 I passed up a couple of really low cost used Kubota's because I knew they would immediately need new hoses, fluids and tires all around. My M4700 showed a need for new fronts ($600) but sported brand new rears and the county had recently replaced about half of the hydraulic hoses and all the fluids and filters. Over the course of 2 years I've replaced 3 or 4 hydraulic hoses, 2 quarts of hydraulic fluid and probably 50 gallons of diesel fuel.

 

[blucoondawg]

Exactly, not to mention a tractor is a fairly simple machine, the older you go the simpler they are, they dont have the complicated wiring systems with a thousand do dads that a car has, especially talking compacts and smaller utility tractors. It's funny people think nothing of buying a car or pickup with 20-30k miles on it for a decent price but a low hour tractor makes people gun shy when a tractor is more durable and easier for the layman to repair with a manual and a few questions to an experienced guy

 

[bruceha2000]

What does it matter? Just dig up my old threads. It seems you'll just find something else to complain about.

The PRESENT machine at Barlow Equipment Inventory | Barlow Equipment is listed as having 483.2 hours and Barlow has an excellent reputation on this board for delivering quality tractors, so one doesn't have to worry about problems.

My main point is that it is possible to buy used equipment and save a lot of $$ if you can search for bargains rather than "have to have it now" and new.

That new tractor smell doesn't last long.

I fully understand the pleasure of buying a new XYZ but the OP seems to have a budget and the L3540 is on the lower edge of what he needs.

I'm sure there are Kioti's, LS's, Mahindra's that can be found used for similar prices but new for $17.5 K is limited. Plus your dealing with Tier 4.

I'm sorry you are reading my thoughts as complaints, I do not mean them as such. You have probably had tractors for many years, possibly learned to drive one before you learned to drive a car. My total "tractor" history is the rusty but functional (with many hours of fixing up over 2 years) 1995 Yardman GT that was given to me 3 years ago by a friend and the Sears GT I bought last spring to replace it. Thus any question or comment I have is related to figuring out what I need to learn before I go buy a used tractor. Anything all shiny new off a dealer's floor that would do what I need is beyond my finances. So the age of something someone bought and the engine hours and price all go into the mix of trying to figure out what is a good price for a used tractor. For example is a 15 Y/O tractor in equivalent in condition to a 10 Y/O one substantially cheaper just because it is 5 years older or would the price be about the same since a decent tractor will last for decades for example. Your prices for tires, hoses, fluids in a later post are quite helpful in that respect.

I had to look up the tier 4 thing. Looks like anything newer than 2007 in the HP range most of us might buy is going to be tier 4. Your comment suggests one might be happier without tier 4. Is that related to the extra "after combustion" stuff that has to happen, more complications perhaps?

 

[blucoondawg]

No the tier 4 just started, before that was tier 4 interim which doesn't have all the tier 4 garbage. Yes it's more complicated, maybe not necessarily bad but as with anything new it's not yet known how dependable the system is.

 

[gladehound]

I know I have to wonder:

How the heck do you get a REAL tractor (*) that the OP and I need for anywhere NEAR his $15K mark shy of "well used" if the smallest of the small costs $13K with a 48" bucket (no mower or blower)?.

Ironically, the SCUTs are nearly as expensive as some tractors that are much larger.

The tractor in the picture is a 2013 Kioti DS4510HS. I bought this as a leftover / demo 6 months ago with a 4 year warrantee for $19.5K with one rear remote and the loader. That's not too far from the 15K mark for a "new", "real" tractor that is big enough to do a fair amount of work. If I were to sell this tractor in the next year or two as a used tractor (not happening!) I would hope to get ~15K. If your budget is ~15K, this is the type of thing you should be looking for. They are out there. You just have to look. People's situations change and they sell perfectly good almost new stuff all the time (it is Tier III).

Alternatively, there is nothing wrong with a simple older tractor. As some mentioned, they may be easier to maintain. For ~15K you can get some really nice used utility tractors in the 40-60hp range. Look at Ebay or tractor house or craigs list. I actually found my first tractor on Ebay and it gave me 8 years of trouble free service.