Buying Advice First Tractor - Which way to go?

[gladehound]

Isn't a large frame CUT a contradiction in terms?

:laughing: :thumbsup:

When crossing from one brand to another and switching from one weight class to another it is hard to get apples to apples comparisons. Then limiting your search to a particular (power reverser) transmission also narrowed your choices considerably.

Yes. But it's good to try so at least you know what you're getting for the price. You can't compare a manual collar shift tranny utility tractor to a e-Hydro CUT and conclude that Utility tractors are less expensive.

When I was tractor shopping I was willing to go about 30 K . I could have spent that on any number of CUTs but for 30K I bought the 5045E with the 72" cutter all fitted out as I wanted it. I could have also bought several other utility sized tractor from other brands for the same money or less .

If the OP budget were 30K I would be 100% in agreement with you. If my budget were 30K when last shopping for a tractor I would have went with a full size utility tractor and very likely a slightly used JD5055E with power reverser. So I am not disagreeing with you. I am a fan of heavy tractors. But at a 15K budget as specified by the OP, I think the options in a large frame CUT are more attractive than what you can get in a utility tractor.

Regarding having enough weight for the power, it is entirely dependent on what you are doing. The lighter machine will be more responsive and do some things faster. the heavier machine will have more traction. For field work it's about proper implement size. Lighter tractor = smaller implement but with same hp will be able to pull it in a higher gear and go faster. Both will do about the same work in the same time when properly set up. For me personally, I always want more weight and more power. And if money were no object I'd have a New Holland Bidirectional TV6070. But money is a factor so I have what I have and I'm happy with the choice and the value.

Loaders on average are a little beefier on Utility tractors but here you have to compare models because many CUTs have loaders that are stronger than the loaders on many utility tractors. This is especially true if you compare a newer large frame CUT with an older utility tractor. So you really have to know what your looking at.

Finally, there is a point at which the line between a utility tractor and a CUT gets blurry. With JD there is a clear line, 4000 series is a CUT, 5000 series is a utility tractor. But what about a used Kioti DK55? Is that a CUT or a utility tractor? What is a Mahindra 5035? Maybe these should be considered extra large frame CUTs :laughing: Actually, I've seen several Kioti DK55 tractors with loaders over the years for $14K-16K with hours ranging from 300 to 1000. That might be a good choice for the OP.

The point is, the OP has to figure out his needs and compare those needs to what is available within his budget. I don't think he should lock himself into looking at only CUTs or only utility tractors.

 

[vtsnowedin]

:laughing: :thumbsup:



Yes. But it's good to try so at least you know what you're getting for the price. You can't compare a manual collar shift tranny utility tractor to a e-Hydro CUT and conclude that Utility tractors are less expensive.



.

I most certainly can compare the gear tractor to the hydro. You let out the clutch and the tractor proceeds using less fuel so in my view is superior for most of MY work. Your needs may vary.
The rest of your post I quite agree with.

 

[gladehound]

I most certainly can compare the gear tractor to the hydro. You let out the clutch and the tractor proceeds using less fuel so in my view is superior for most of MY work. Your needs may vary.
The rest of your post I quite agree with.

I don't think we have any disagreement here. I probably did not articulate my intended meaning well enough. My point was simply if you compare a larger utility tractor to a smaller CUT with the same features, the CUT will be much less expensive. There are plenty of manual tranny CUTs out there for bargain prices. Full featured CUTs with e-hydro and everything else they can think of will be more expensive than many utility tractors - and the potential buyer should compare them all.

 

[terryknight]

IMy point was simply if you compare a larger utility tractor to a smaller CUT with the same features, the CUT will be much less expensive. There are plenty of manual tranny CUTs out there for bargain prices.

not from my searching. i shopped most major brands MF, CNH, JD, Kubota, Kioti, looking for a gear driven bottom of the line large CUT or small utility tractor and I found all brands the CUT was more expensive than the similar UT (save the JD UT was 9x3 synchro shift and the 4520 was power reverser)

 

[GManBart]

not from my searching. i shopped most major brands MF, CNH, JD, Kubota, Kioti, looking for a gear driven bottom of the line large CUT or small utility tractor and I found all brands the CUT was more expensive than the similar UT (save the JD UT was 9x3 synchro shift and the 4520 was power reverser)

Which Kioti models did you look at? An RX (utility) is definitely more expensive than an NX, or the DK before it.

 

[terryknight]

the DK45 and the DK55 (have to check that was the exact model) the 55 was $50 cheaper at the time.

was quoted 25800 for the 45 and 25750 for the 55 from Rathells in talbot county md

 

[gladehound]

the DK45 and the DK55 (have to check that was the exact model) the 55 was $50 cheaper at the time.

was quoted 25800 for the 45 and 25750 for the 55 from Rathells in talbot county md

Hmmm... interesting. I do see what you mean. It's certainly true for JD. I just checked Mahindra and the small utilities are less expensive than the biggest CUT (5535 vs 5035). But more expensive than small "large" frame cuts like the 5010 gear. Probably true for Kubota because I know the M series can be had at good prices. But then again, the M series is smaller with lower specs than many CUTs which makes me question where the line is again.

For Kioti, the RX is far more expensive than a DS. LS compacts are less expensive than their larger tractors.

I wound up with a CUT because that particular model is a screaming value. I got the DS4510HS for 19.5K with front end loader, rear remote, delivery and 50 hour service. But on average, I'd say the small utility tractors are better values than the large CUTs.

So this got me wondering what was out there on Tractorhouse in the $15k range with loader and 4wd and less than 1000 hours for our OP:

Farmtrek 545DTC utility <$13,00 with < 100 hours - don't know anything about these
1994 AGCO Alis 4650 Utility - $14.5K, 892 hours
2006 Montana 4340 CUT - $14.5K, 638 hours
2004 CASE IH D40 CUT - $14.9K, 827 hours
TYM T503 CUT - $15K, 232 hours (I believe this is similar to a Mahindra 5010)
2006 Mahindra 4530 Utility, $15K, 817 hours- basic heavy tractor
Mahindra 6000 16K, 605 hrs

I stopped at $16K. So three CUTS and four utilities. The Farmtrek are a screaming deal if they are reliable but I know nothing about them except that they are made in India...but I believe the JD5000 series up to ~70 hp is also made in India (correct me if I'm wrong). Of all these I'd think the TYM would give the least trouble being that it is Japanese with the lowest hours. I believe the Mahindras are also made in India. Don't know anything about the CASE or the AGCO. The Mahindra 6000 is also enticing in this group for the shear size and weight.

Now if I change the search to include tractors with 1000 to 2000 hours I get some interesting options (not going to list them all but there are two I like, both happen to by utility tractors):

2005 Kubota M5700, $16K, 1028 hours - This looks like a nice tractor for the price
2003 MF 451, $15K, 1500 hrs. - a brute!

Again there is about an even mix of Utilities and CUTs but the Utilities seem to be more tractor for the price.

Lots of tractors for the OP to think about. If he doesn't mind a manual tranny the offering in the Utility tractors do seem better. This is not what I expected to find. I thought it would be more CUTS and few utility tractors in this lower price range. Yet I still think it is hard to beat the TYM 503 at $15K with 232 hours. I do like the MF because it is a beast.

 

[GManBart]

Farmtrek 545DTC utility <$13,00 with < 100 hours - don't know anything about these
1994 AGCO Alis 4650 Utility - $14.5K, 892 hours
2006 Montana 4340 CUT - $14.5K, 638 hours
2004 CASE IH D40 CUT - $14.9K, 827 hours
TYM T503 CUT - $15K, 232 hours (I believe this is similar to a Mahindra 5010)
2006 Mahindra 4530 Utility, $15K, 817 hours- basic heavy tractor
Mahindra 6000 16K, 605 hrs

I stopped at $16K. So three CUTS and four utilities. The Farmtrek are a screaming deal if they are reliable but I know nothing about them except that they are made in India...but I believe the JD5000 series up to ~70 hp is also made in India (correct me if I'm wrong). Of all these I'd think the TYM would give the least trouble being that it is Japanese with the lowest hours. I believe the Mahindras are also made in India. Don't know anything about the CASE or the AGCO. The Mahindra 6000 is also enticing in this group for the shear size and weight.

TYM is a South Korean company, not Japanese.

 

[gladehound]

TYM is a South Korean company, not Japanese.

Thanks for the correction. Obviously I also have a good opinion of South Korean tractors.... I own one.

 

[Creamer]

I could have spent that on any number of CUTs but for 30K I bought the 5045E with the 72" cutter all fitted out as I wanted it. I could have also bought several other utility sized tractor from other brands for the same money or less but thought (and it remains to be seen) that the JD was a better value for each doller spent over time. I'll get back to you on that after twenty years or so or my heirs will.

That is what my brother thought until in the mid-90's he bought a JD 7800 with all the options including FWA. After he had it 5-6 years he was ready to trade it and nobody wanted it especially the JD dealers. He bought an Agco that year and has since evaluated all tractors on their immediate value to the farm. The green paint does not hold its value like it used to. That is not to say he avoids green paint as they bought a 9460R a couple of years ago as well as a new combine - he just doesn't add in value for green paint anymore. His newest tractor - last year was an Kubota M135.