FMCSA interpretation of GCWR

[Bikewanderer]

May I ask a question at the risk of making the farmers angry? Why are farmers excluded from the CDL requirements?

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way "against" farmers. I have members of my family farm and I live among farmers... some of who are very close friends.

However, farmers operate some of the biggest, heaviest and dangerous pieces of equipment out there. I find it very odd they they are given carte blanche in terms of equipment they can drive on the road.

And all of the farmers I know pretty much claim "farm use" for everything in order to get away with as much as they can. I'm not being judgemental, I'm just sayin'.

Farmers certainly are commercial.

The "RV" exclusion is even more ridiculous to me. There you have people that are not used to driving big machines hitting the road.

At least the farmer is used to driving his big stuff. Except maybe his 16 year old kid blasting down the road with a combine... but that is for another discussion...

CDL and other similar laws are just another form of taxation that have very little to do with making anything safer. They exempt farmers because they can't make farmers pay exorbinant fees and paperwork to comply.

 

[brokenot]

The "RV" exclusion is even more ridiculous to me. There you have people that are not used to driving big machines hitting the road.

Many, (most?), of the RV drivers I see are very used to driving those vehicles down the road. Additionally, it would be difficult to find an RV that's seeing daily use wind up in the same state of dis-repair, or cobbled-togetherness that's seen with many farm vehicles or combination vehicles. To top it off, an RV typically doesn't "change" from use-to-use to anywhere near the degree that farm vehicles do. An RV pretty much stays an RV. It drives/handles/stops/starts the same way right now as it did five minutes ago, unlike other large vehicles that are driven (over)loaded one minute....and empty the next.

I have nothing against farmers either, I grew up on a farm and reside in a very agricultural area. But, my first "garage job" was in a general repair shop that handled everything from cars to tractors. I got to see firsthand every day the shortcuts that were taken to keep those vehicles on the road. Spliced brake lines, shimmed-up and hay-wired worn steering components, etc.

And that's to say nothing about the variety of poorly-welded and poorly-engineered user added accessories. It wasn't unusual to see a sticker warning aganst welding on a frame member...having been removed to clear an area for welding.:confused2:

It would be pretty tough to find a "typical" RV on the road that's had a similar number of cobbled-up repairs and maintenance done to it....

 

[QRTRHRS]

Many, (most?), of the RV drivers I see are very used to driving those vehicles down the road. Additionally, it would be difficult to find an RV that's seeing daily use wind up in the same state of dis-repair, or cobbled-togetherness that's seen with many farm vehicles or combination vehicles. To top it off, an RV typically doesn't "change" from use-to-use to anywhere near the degree that farm vehicles do. An RV pretty much stays an RV. It drives/handles/stops/starts the same way right now as it did five minutes ago, unlike other large vehicles that are driven (over)loaded one minute....and empty the next.

I have nothing against farmers either, I grew up on a farm and reside in a very agricultural area. But, my first "garage job" was in a general repair shop that handled everything from cars to tractors. I got to see firsthand every day the shortcuts that were taken to keep those vehicles on the road. Spliced brake lines, shimmed-up and hay-wired worn steering components, etc.

And that's to say nothing about the variety of poorly-welded and poorly-engineered user added accessories. It wasn't unusual to see a sticker warning aganst welding on a frame member...having been removed to clear an area for welding.:confused2:

It would be pretty tough to find a "typical" RV on the road that's had a similar number of cobbled-up repairs and maintenance done to it....

The issue with RV's is the level of experiance going into it. Someone who has sat in a cubicle for thirty years can go buy a forty foot vehicle and have at it. You need special classes and endorsements for anything else. Attitude's scare me. Read up some of the threads on site's catering to RVer's running heavy duty trucks. (Which is a good thing overall.)

Farmer's don't scare me per sey. Nor do RVer's, biker's, etc., etc., etc. Yahoo's on the cell scare me. People five feet off my rear end when I am moving with other traffic scare me.

Re: frame welding. Has anyone actually seen frame failure from welding? If so, what size vehicle?

 

[scoutcub]

I think I'm more scared of the RV'ers. The farmers usually are traveling slow, or not a great distance.....
But the RV'er, regardless of age, can go out and buy a 45' superrig, then attach a trailer or tow vehicle to it.....and they just really aren't aware of their length/width, especially at 60 or 70 MPH. Countless times I've passed RV's and they unknowingly veer into my lane, so I'm over the white line in the passing lane.....so much so, that my typical passing strategy is to back off a bit, build up some speed and pass them (any RV) as quick as possible.....but that's just me...!

 

[LoneCowboy]

I have no problems with Farmers not needing CDL's and such to do their farm work.
what I DO have a problem with is people using those "farm" plates to do commercial work. Perfect example, right up the road from me is a guy who has two hay delivery trucks. (he picks up the whole stack, flips it not quite 90 degrees and then drives it to his customer. He neither makes the hay nor uses the hay. He picks it up from people and delivers it to other people.

Farm plates, even says (in place of USDOT # on his truck "farm use")

Explain to me how that is not commercial.

No yearly inspections
no CDL
no random drug tests
way way way cheaper plates

total crap. This is the kind of thing that I see every day that pisses me off.

RV'er's are a joke.
most RV's are in decent shape, most trailers aren't.
no inspections, no CDL, no medical card (which you might think would be important at the wheel of 40,000lbs or so, if, of course, it's really about safety).

Horse people are worse.
Explain to me how a $100,000 dollar 33,000GVW class 7 truck pulling a 10 or 15 horse trailer isn't commercial. No possible way that that is personal use.
None.

 

[Diamondpilot]

While all this concern may be true with RV folks and Farmers I can not think of the last time I have seen a accident involving one of them. We did have a farmer get killed in a 18 wheeler here last year but a girl pulled out infront of him as he was traveling over a bridge. He swerved to avoid her and went off the bridge to his death.

As for the RV and boating folks I have been installing hitches and such for many years now. Worked on literally 100's of tow vehicles. I also boat with a large group just about every weekend and most tow 50 miles or more to the lake. While they have their fair share of flat tires and bearing failures the last accident I can think of was in the early 90's and again it was not the tow vehicles fault. I can also remember 2 trailers coming unhitched, 1 just this year, but the worst damage was a rear bumper and tailgate replacement.

Chris

 

[flyingcow]

I've tried to follow these threads about GVW's. I get lost in the reading, which isn't hard for me to do. My recommendation is do not get a USDOT# unless your are operating a "hot shot" style of business. Basically a fulltime, "For Hire" type of business. i.e. boat movers/camper movers,etc.

I'm in the trucking business, I have a USDOT#. Which i only needed to get because i travel across state lines. I used to just haul in-state and did not need USDOT, but did need a state of Maine DOT#. Big difference in paperwork once i went into the federal system. I'm also in the IFTA system. I have to file fuel taxes in the states I run. I generally run a time card type of system. I usually use the 100 air mile exemption. Don't need log books this way. Time card is left at my place of business.

IMO,If you are using this to move your equipment around,especially occasionaly. Keep out of Federal system, keep your head low, and voice down. And ride. Obviously if your over 26,000lbs, you may be in a class 1 driver situation. Or at least a class 2 license may be needed.

Chances are, I'm off-topic somehow, or misunderstood something. BUT for the love of God, don't tip your toe into the Federal system, it can be a life of he!!.

Also, it some states if you register your pickup commercially,no matter what the registered weight, you can not in any way shape or form have alcohol in your vehicle. Even stopping at the local grocer and bringing it home. Yes, it's a technical thing, but if you get the wrong "rookie" or piseed off LEO. Your going to get nailed.

 

[Lt CHEG]

CDL and other similar laws are just another form of taxation that have very little to do with making anything safer. They exempt farmers because they can't make farmers pay exorbinant fees and paperwork to comply.

This is exactly true. CDL regulations have very little to do with safety. It is all about revenue. Commercial vehicle enforcement on the part of law enforcement is ALL ABOUT MONEY. I say this is a current law enforcement officer and former uniformed police officer. Ramped up commercial vehicle enforcement has absolutely nothing to do with safety and is only a way to put more money into the public coffers without overtly raising taxes.

 

[Ford tractor]

I have a F650 Flatbed truck rated at 26,000 with farm plates. I also haul a trailer at times that is rated at 20K with farm plates as well. The overall GCWR of the truck/trailer is 40,000 lbs. As long as I do not exceed the 40K limit or over load the truck beyond 26,000 I am legal for farm use. I have talked to the DOT and State patrol office a few times and in Wisconsin under the farm exception rules I am legal.

2 WI questions. Also, can you point to the applicable statues?

Does that mean you don't require a CDL to drive that combination? (farm plated)

Does that also mean that you don't need the USDOT numbers that WI mandates for CMV's with a total weight of 10,001# or more?

 

[ahlkey]

Yes their are specific statues covering farm use in Wisconsin but it does require some digging. I no longer have them handy but you can find them if you go into the farm exception requirements . I would agree it would be nice to have them in your truck if you are stopped. I do have both my truck and trailers with farm plates and they are also owned by my LLC farm business.

I do not need a DOT number nor a CDL license even when going over the 10,000 trailer limit. You can only transport within 150 miles of your farm and you must only carry your own produce. If you try to carry your neighbors produce you will be fined and you will need a CDL & DOT registration.

The most typical scenario is that I carry 10,000 lbs or so on my flatbed truck (truck weighs 11,000 lbs) so truck then is about 21,000 loaded but well under the 26,000 limit. I then pull my trailer (weighs 5,000) with a 12,000 load so that comes to 17,000 lbs. So overall my GCWR is 38,000 lbs which is under the 40,000 for my truck.

Hope this helps.