Ford vs. GM: Twin-Turbo Showdown

[Bob77064]

When I was a kid I walked to school up hill boh ways.

 

[94BULLITT]

When I was a kid I walked to school up hill boh ways.

At least you did not do it barefoot in the snow.

 

[Bob77064]

Only during the winter.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Only during the winter.

I'm sure Dmace did. In a Hemi.....lol

Chris

 

[Dmace]

I never said travel trailer. WTH, why another tangent. I just said 5000 lb trailer. Why the details? Yes I found it impressive even if it was a 5000 lb aerodynamic rocket I was towing.

Because I have experience with your vintage hemi powered truck too. Are you going to argue your 9 year old, 5-speed hemi will hold gears on inclines better than an ecoboost? Please answer. I know how downshift happy that combo is.

Until Ram builds a turbo direct injection hemi, leave it out of this thread. I know you like the word hemi, but please refrain from throwing it in everyone's thread.

Why the details?
There's a big difference between travel trailers and pop-up's and three 500lb motorcycles vs 200lb dirt bikes. ANY newer V8 truck will easily pull that pop-up and dirt bikes with very little if any downshifting. I know you think the Ecoboost is some amazing engine and that your "heavy" up-hill towing proves it but the simple V8's would perform the same.

Would mine downshift? Probably not but I have 3.73 gears which is why I only average 15-16mpg empty. Would a new V8 pull that without downshifting and get the same fuel mileage empty as the Ecoboost? Yup!

I still don't see the advantage of a small displacement turbo engine over a larger V8. I do see the advantage of direct injection though but feel larger displacement NA d.i. engines will prevail.

Do you think you would have the same results pulling a travel trailer and three 500lb motorcycles? Please answer, I know how those Ford stories get stretched...

 

[jejeosborne]

Why the details?
There's a big difference between travel trailers and pop-up's and three 500lb motorcycles vs 200lb dirt bikes. ANY newer V8 truck will easily pull that pop-up and dirt bikes with very little if any downshifting. I know you think the Ecoboost is some amazing engine and that your "heavy" up-hill towing proves it but the simple V8's would perform the same.

Would mine downshift? Probably not but I have 3.73 gears which is why I only average 15-16mpg empty. Would a new V8 pull that without downshifting and get the same fuel mileage empty as the Ecoboost? Yup!

I still don't see the advantage of a small displacement turbo engine over a larger V8. I do see the advantage of direct injection though but feel larger displacement NA d.i. engines will prevail.

Do you think you would have the same results pulling a travel trailer and three 500lb motorcycles? Please answer, I know how those Ford stories get stretched...

Not just my heavy towing experience, have you seen the up hill challenges?

My answer is: The additional 900 lbs in your example would influence the frequency and need for downshifting. So would additional aerodynamic drag. So would the grade of the hill. Do I really need to explain this?

Point being, turbocharged gas engines produce more torque are lower rpms than NA engines of larger displacement. This enables them to hold a gear without the need to downshift plain and simple.

Fact is, the ecoboost produces more torque than the hemi below 4000 rpms. 15% more at 2500 rpms.

Here is another article of unbiased testers who have similar experiences as I:

http://m.trucktrend.com/oftheyear/truck/1202_2012_truck_of_the_year_ford_f_150/viewall.html

Notice this quote from the article?
"On the road, the EcoBoost makes the 5.0-liter look like obsolete technology. The twin-turbo V-6 is incredibly quick and eager, power is abundant throughout the rpm range, and I didn't really notice any lag. All our testers had similar remarks, and for good reason. The EcoBoost delivers more torque to the ground than the big 6.2-liter up to roughly 5000 rpm and more than the 5.0-liter all the way up to 6000. In loaded, towing, and uphill testing, several judges noted how hard the 5.0-liter was working. "Power seems opposite of where you want it in a truck" to "had to keep the throttle mashed while the transmission hunted" were typical comments."

Your answer of "probably not" leaves me with a sense of your uncertainty. Understandably after all this teaching. Now go out and test drive an ecoboost pulling ANY trailer you desire and report back. I promise to not take your post on a wild tangent excursion. Until then, you have no reason to doubt.

The new 8-speed with the hemi will be interesting. How many gears will it be dropping to crest a hill?

 

[Dmace]

Not just my heavy towing experience, have you seen the up hill challenges?

I assume you mean this one from over 2 years ago. news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/12/ford-f-150-ecoboost-v-6-beats-v-8-competition-in-dam-challenge.html
The "challenges" Ford marketing put on where they put their truck up against out-going models with taller gearing? Yeah, I saw them. Waste of time really...
And before you say "the RAM had a 3.92 vs the Ford 3.73", the RAM had the old 5 speed so overall gearing was still taller than the Ford 6 speed with a 3.73. Notice over the 12 mile grade, the old tech RAM was just 3 seconds behind? Even the newer 6 speed RAM would make that a different outcome let alone the new 8 speed.

My answer is: The additional 900 lbs in your example would influence the frequency and need for downshifting. So would additional aerodynamic drag. So would the grade of the hill. Do I really need to explain this?

No but you could explain why you think this is such an incredible feat that only a small displacement turbo engine can do...

Point being, turbocharged gas engines produce more torque are lower rpms than NA engines of larger displacement. This enables them to hold a gear without the need to downshift plain and simple.

A blanket statement like this is wrong. It's the Direct Injection that creates low end torque NOT the turbo. "A direct injected engine will produce more low end torque than a larger port injection engine" is more accurate. The turbo just makes up for mid-range and top end in leui of displacement.
Turbo gas engines are useless at low rpms, it's the direct injection that makes up for it.

Fact is, the ecoboost produces more torque than the hemi below 4000 rpms. 15% more at 2500 rpms.

Direct injection will do that. I'll be the first to admit the HEMI is an aging design, it doesn't even have overhead cams. The fact it still performs so well is a testament to a proven design. Adding DOHC or Direct Injection would certainly add to that performance.
I like how your trying to compare engine dynos again.

Here is another article of unbiased testers who have similar experiences as I

Your opinions are facts in your mind. There is the problem.

So the opinions that can be considered facts are only those that agree with you? I see...

The new 8-speed with the hemi will be interesting. How many gears will it be dropping to crest a hill?

Apparently you don't see how an 8-speed will allow the transmission to use a narrower spread of gear ratios so it will NOT need to downshift as much.

 

[jejeosborne]

Now if you have no value to add relating to turbo charged trucks, leave with your speculation.

Until Ram builds a turbo direct injection hemi, leave it out of this thread. I know you like the word hemi, but please refrain from throwing it in everyone's thread.

Anybody know how to get a dm ace from intercepting a thread about technology with lack of technology experiences?

 

[Dmace]

Anybody know how to get a dm ace from intercepting a thread about technology with lack of technology experiences?

Seriously, grow up!
If you can't handle a conversation without stooping to ridicule then go somewhere else.
Driving a new truck doesn't make you an expert on them...

 

[sld]

Don't feed the knowledge challenged troll and he will go away.