Fuel pump issue

[Kaltoft]

Hi

I hope someone with knowledge of diesel fuel pumps are able to help me a bit.

My Bobcat 2400 articulated loader has issues with its fuel supply

Motor: Perkins 4.236
Fuel Pump: Lucas CAV

The problem was a broken fuel pump, that I have now repaired with new parts. However, I have issues starting the engine. With the repaired pump I am now able to get fuel to all injectors, however the engine does not fire up at all. If I use starting fluid the motor fires as expected. It ran fine before the fuel pump died.
The problem with the fuel pump was accumulated dirt blocking the rotation of the pump head, and causing the main axle in the pump head to break from the force of the starter motor.

Could the fact that the engine was allowed to rotate with the broken pump with a stationary pump-head have caused the engine and pump to be out of time?

 

[CoyPatton]

Hi

I hope someone with knowledge of diesel fuel pumps are able to help me a bit.

My Bobcat 2400 articulated loader has issues with its fuel supply

Motor: Perkins 4.236
Fuel Pump: Lucas CAV

The problem was a broken fuel pump, that I have now repaired with new parts. However, I have issues starting the engine. With the repaired pump I am now able to get fuel to all injectors, however the engine does not fire up at all. If I use starting fluid the motor fires as expected. It ran fine before the fuel pump died.
The problem with the fuel pump was accumulated dirt blocking the rotation of the pump head, and causing the main axle in the pump head to break from the force of the starter motor.

Could the fact that the engine was allowed to rotate with the broken pump with a stationary pump-head have caused the engine and pump to be out of time?

Yes that is a possibility. Your injector pump must be timed to the engine. When out of time, it delivers fuel to the cylinder at the wrong time. Your service manual should describe the timing process for the pump.

 

[Kaltoft]

Yes that is a possibility. Your injector pump must be timed to the engine. When out of time, it delivers fuel to the cylinder at the wrong time. Your service manual should describe the timing process for the pump.

I understand that timing is critical. I just dont see how the pump could be installed to be out of time.
When refurbishing the pump I noticed that all parts are designed to only be able to go back in one orientation, and the pump itself is only able to mount to the engine in one orientation due to a notch on the pump that meshes with the fuel pump gear on the engine. The pump has timing marks that are aligned with timing marks on the engine body.

 

[CoyPatton]

I understand that timing is critical. I just dont see how the pump could be installed to be out of time.
When refurbishing the pump I noticed that all parts are designed to only be able to go back in one orientation, and the pump itself is only able to mount to the engine in one orientation due to a notch on the pump that meshes with the fuel pump gear on the engine. The pump has timing marks that are aligned with timing marks on the engine body.

Could it be 180 out if time?

 

[Kaltoft]

Could it be 180 out if time?

The symptoms certainly seem to indicate that, but I just don't see how it could be assembled to be 180 degrees out of time


Engine fuel pump timing gear


Pump notch


Timing marks engine/pump

 

[rowellc]

Hi

I hope someone with knowledge of diesel fuel pumps are able to help me a bit.

My Bobcat 2400 articulated loader has issues with its fuel supply

Motor: Perkins 4.236
Fuel Pump: Lucas CAV

The problem was a broken fuel pump, that I have now repaired with new parts. However, I have issues starting the engine. With the repaired pump I am now able to get fuel to all injectors, however the engine does not fire up at all. If I use starting fluid the motor fires as expected. It ran fine before the fuel pump died.
The problem with the fuel pump was accumulated dirt blocking the rotation of the pump head, and causing the main axle in the pump head to break from the force of the starter motor.

Could the fact that the engine was allowed to rotate with the broken pump with a stationary pump-head have caused the engine and pump to be out of time?

You probably have air in the lines. You will have to drain the fuel injectors till there is no more air. You will know when the fuel injectors stop dribbling fuel and start squirting again
I just had this issue with my 8010 diesel New Holland. My problem is my fuel pump comes on by itself when the engine is turned off.

 

[Kaltoft]

You probably have air in the lines. You will have to drain the fuel injectors till there is no more air. You will know when the fuel injectors stop dribbling fuel and start squirting again
I just had this issue with my 8010 diesel New Holland. My problem is my fuel pump comes on by itself when the engine is turned off.

That has been my hope so far, however I have now drained a large completely charged 170Ah battery twice trying to bleed the fuel system and no improvement yet, never a single ignition despite fuel coming out at the injectors when the lines are loosened
and white smoke coming from the exhaust.

 

[Loaderman22]

Where's thepumpguysc? he typically knows these things off the top of his head??

 

[Tinhack]

The symptoms certainly seem to indicate that, but I just don't see how it could be assembled to be 180 degrees out of time

The cam that drives the pump could be 180 degrees out or on intake/exhaust on a different cylinder than you expect. You said the engine turned without turning the pump. The cam turns one time for every two rotations of the engine. You need to follow the procedure for timing the pump for that engine. You can NOT just install the pump to align the pin after the engine has turned and not the pump. You could be injecting diesel in a different cylinder on the exhaust stroke.

You need to know where the engine is in it's timing and match the injector pump to that.

 

[CoyPatton]

The cam that drives the pump could be 180 degrees out or compressing on a different cylinder than you expect. You said the engine turned without turning the pump. The cam turns one time for every two rotations of the engine. You need to follow the procedure for timing the pump for that engine. You can NOT just install the pump to align the pin after the engine has turned and not the pump. You could be injecting diesel in a different cylinder on the exhaust stroke.

You need to know where the engine is in it's timing and match the injector pump to that.

There should be detailed timing process for both the engine and the injector pump in the service manual. Failure to follow these procedures, means you are shooting in the dark, with a blind fold on after having bern spun until your brain does not know up from right, right from down or down from left.

In simple terms, the pump must be timed so it injects fuel for cylinder 1 when cylinder 1 is on the intake stroke. To try this without closely following the timing procedure is near possible.