Not true.
Nearly all Non ULSD diesel has been phased out.
What's wrong with Bio?
Home heating fuel /Tractor ?
- Thread starter First one
- Start date
Not true.
Nearly all Non ULSD diesel has been phased out.
What's wrong with Bio?
xrjohndeere
Gold Member
I don't know about your state but here in Missouri you can buy off road diesel for your tractor. Because it is for farm use you should not have to pay taxes on it.
radioman
Super Member
Yeah a fine only if the vehicle like a car or truck is registered to drive on the roads and goes faster the 25 mph.
A fine for tractor having wrong color? not likely.Hannibalbill
New member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2009
- Messages
- 10
We have a big CAT dozer, two farm tractors, and my Kabota BX 24. All of them happily use the same # 2 oil that I use in my furnace. The state and feds only worry about vehicles that go down the road. Buy what's cheapest and sleep easy.
OP
First one
Gold Member
Good to hear that you seem to all agree on using home heating fuel is o.k. Where it's winter now #1 is what I should use, where it's so cold? and #2 for summer use . Thanks !!
Scott
Scott
'Round here we still get the LSD (Low Sulfur Diesel); every now and then the ULSD. FWIW the oil company that supplies me and all the other farms around these parts does not "dye" the fuel oil; every time I get an invoice it is stamped stating it's not dyed and it's for farm use; and, the over the road trucks & trailers with the "Farm" tags run it. Interesting ain't it!
Joe
P.S. I also have the "Farm" tag ($10-$12/year) on my little red chevy S-10 (short bed w/tool box); these farm trucks are really the thing ... lol
Gentlemen:
Home heating oil in the United States is not yet ultra low sulfur or even low sulfur. We-those who are in the hvac trade- have been hearing that ultra low sulfur heating oil is coming for the past three years but it is still not here and unfortunately the market will not change in the near future. I say 'unfortunately' because when ultra low sulfur heating oil arrives it WILL reduce required service on residential systems as the sulfur is the major reason that your oil boiler or furnace requires a scheduled cleaning/brushing out.
I have seen pictures of two oil boilers after three years of operation; one was natural gas (methane) and one was fueled with ultra low sulfur heating oil, the heat exchanger surfaces appeared identical; this is why we await the switch with enthusiasm.
However, with the change to ultra low sulfur fuels comes a compromise in the lubricity of the fuel, or the fuels ability to lubricate injection pumps, injectors and everything else that needs some lubrication to keep things inside the fuel system happy which is why the older equipment-with the older types of seals and components- are better served by non ultra low sulfur fuels-or the use of additives with ulsd.
The addition of any blend of bio diesel adds an entirely new problem to the mix and that is the affinity that bio has for moisture AND its propensity to wreak havoc on certain metals, one is copper.
New equipment is designed for all this and will be most unhappy with heating oil as currently blended while old equipment MAY, conversely be miserable on the new fuel while being quite content with pre ultra low sulfur diesel (if you can find it) OR home heating oil as the offroad diesel fuel available at some stations is ulsd without the dye and without the taxes of course.
DISCLAIMER: with regard to diesel engines my comments reflect those thoughts that allegedly smart people have voiced.
With regard to residential heating systems my comments reflect over 35 years experience in this miserable trade.
With regard to dye in home heating oil; the feds are astounding good at detecting even a 5% blend of heating oil in the fuel tank of an over the road truck. My advice to you is to avoid the temptation, the fines are breathtaking.
And with the Republic going to **** as quickly as it is, you can only be sure that enforcement of non taxable fuel (dyed) used in taxable applications will only be increased.
For those wondering what the difference between kerosene and diesel fuel is; kero is diesel without the wax or without alot of the wax. The lack of this substance is why this fuel-kero/number one oil- does not gel at cold temps; it is also the reason why kero does not have the btu content (heat content) of diesel fuel because wax contains a great deal of potential energy..
For instance the 'heavy' oils 4/6, used in alot of ships and industrial apps, contain so much wax-read energy-that the fuel must be preheated to be loaded into tankers and prior to being burned - atomized, turned into really tiny droplets by a massive pressure drop after the fuel unit at the 'nozzel'. No -liquid- fuel burns, only the vapor or the evaporated/atomized state of any liquid fuel can be ignited-for instance, I can extinguish my air/mapp torch by quickly placing it into a bucket of fuel oil-however if I loiter the torch over the surface of the fuel oil, enough liquid evaporates and really neat things begin to happen.
NEVER TRY THIS WITH NUMBER 1 FUEL/KERO, it would be most unpleasant.
AND by the way, if you are using number 1 oil/kero in your home this is why your equipment stays so much cleaner than than someone who has number two heating oil-wax accounts for some of this also.
I am not suggesting that anyone try this with either 1/2 oil, as it is not safe, then again, by definition, NOTHING is SAFE.
All this thanks to Barney and his friends, and trees, plants, grass, twigs.....
By the way, for all you man made global warming nut cases: if we can agree that crude oil is decayed plant and animal life-and it is-how can it be that the largest reserves are under deserts? does this NOT mean that these areas, deserts, were once quite different? OR did George and Dick have something to do with this also?????
Anyhow;
Kubota Deere
Kubota Deere
Kubota Deere
still going crazy.
Home heating oil in the United States is not yet ultra low sulfur or even low sulfur. We-those who are in the hvac trade- have been hearing that ultra low sulfur heating oil is coming for the past three years but it is still not here and unfortunately the market will not change in the near future. I say 'unfortunately' because when ultra low sulfur heating oil arrives it WILL reduce required service on residential systems as the sulfur is the major reason that your oil boiler or furnace requires a scheduled cleaning/brushing out.
I have seen pictures of two oil boilers after three years of operation; one was natural gas (methane) and one was fueled with ultra low sulfur heating oil, the heat exchanger surfaces appeared identical; this is why we await the switch with enthusiasm.
However, with the change to ultra low sulfur fuels comes a compromise in the lubricity of the fuel, or the fuels ability to lubricate injection pumps, injectors and everything else that needs some lubrication to keep things inside the fuel system happy which is why the older equipment-with the older types of seals and components- are better served by non ultra low sulfur fuels-or the use of additives with ulsd.
The addition of any blend of bio diesel adds an entirely new problem to the mix and that is the affinity that bio has for moisture AND its propensity to wreak havoc on certain metals, one is copper.
New equipment is designed for all this and will be most unhappy with heating oil as currently blended while old equipment MAY, conversely be miserable on the new fuel while being quite content with pre ultra low sulfur diesel (if you can find it) OR home heating oil as the offroad diesel fuel available at some stations is ulsd without the dye and without the taxes of course.
DISCLAIMER: with regard to diesel engines my comments reflect those thoughts that allegedly smart people have voiced.
With regard to residential heating systems my comments reflect over 35 years experience in this miserable trade.
With regard to dye in home heating oil; the feds are astounding good at detecting even a 5% blend of heating oil in the fuel tank of an over the road truck. My advice to you is to avoid the temptation, the fines are breathtaking.
And with the Republic going to **** as quickly as it is, you can only be sure that enforcement of non taxable fuel (dyed) used in taxable applications will only be increased.
For those wondering what the difference between kerosene and diesel fuel is; kero is diesel without the wax or without alot of the wax. The lack of this substance is why this fuel-kero/number one oil- does not gel at cold temps; it is also the reason why kero does not have the btu content (heat content) of diesel fuel because wax contains a great deal of potential energy..
For instance the 'heavy' oils 4/6, used in alot of ships and industrial apps, contain so much wax-read energy-that the fuel must be preheated to be loaded into tankers and prior to being burned - atomized, turned into really tiny droplets by a massive pressure drop after the fuel unit at the 'nozzel'. No -liquid- fuel burns, only the vapor or the evaporated/atomized state of any liquid fuel can be ignited-for instance, I can extinguish my air/mapp torch by quickly placing it into a bucket of fuel oil-however if I loiter the torch over the surface of the fuel oil, enough liquid evaporates and really neat things begin to happen.
NEVER TRY THIS WITH NUMBER 1 FUEL/KERO, it would be most unpleasant.
AND by the way, if you are using number 1 oil/kero in your home this is why your equipment stays so much cleaner than than someone who has number two heating oil-wax accounts for some of this also.
I am not suggesting that anyone try this with either 1/2 oil, as it is not safe, then again, by definition, NOTHING is SAFE.
All this thanks to Barney and his friends, and trees, plants, grass, twigs.....
By the way, for all you man made global warming nut cases: if we can agree that crude oil is decayed plant and animal life-and it is-how can it be that the largest reserves are under deserts? does this NOT mean that these areas, deserts, were once quite different? OR did George and Dick have something to do with this also?????
Anyhow;
Kubota Deere
Kubota Deere
Kubota Deere
still going crazy.
Last edited:
LBrown59
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
- Messages
- 16,851
- Tractor
- 2003 Kubota BX1500/2004 Kubota Bx23/2005 Kubota BX1500
1*You don't need a seperate tank , just use the house one.
2*That's the same thing .
3*No need to do that here since HHO FO and Diesel are all the same stuff.
4*That's what I'ed do , no need to go to the expense of andding another tasnk.
56
It sure beats liftin and luggin them 5 gallon cans.
Bedlam
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,870
I d like to speak to the 'dyed' part and the govt getting involved. If the equipment is run on your property then you have nothing to worry about. Is it Illegal? I sure don't care.I sure know that there isn't going to be someone coming to check. On the road is another thing altogether,if people want to chance it.
kenstrac
Platinum Member, RIP
I think this is why there is such a difference of oppinion,it gets even more complex when you start looking at different state laws.Some states use ULSD for home heating oil some others allow LSD.
Trying to track ASTM spec's on diesel ,HHO and K1 at $45 per publication I will wait till I get to the library to check it out, BUT there are different spec's for all 3.
As of September 2007, most on-highway diesel fuel sold at retail locations in the United States is ULSD[4].
Ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel was proposed by EPA as a new standard for the sulfur content in on-road diesel fuel sold in the United States since October 15, 2006, except for rural Alaska. California has required it since September 1, 2006, and rural Alaska will transition all diesel to ULSD in 2010. This new regulation applies to all diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and distillate fuels blended with diesel for on-road use, such as kerosene, however, it does not yet apply to railroad locomotives, marine, or off road uses. By December 1, 2010, all highway diesel fuel will be ULSD. Non-road diesel fuel was required to move to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and further to ULSD in 2010. Railroad locomotive and marine diesel fuel also moved to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and will change to ULSD in 2012. There are exemptions for small refiners of nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel fuel that allow for 500 ppm diesel to remain in the system until 2014. After December 1, 2014 all highway, nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel fuel produced and imported will be ULSD.
The EPA mandated the use of ULSD fuel in model year 2007 and newer highway diesel fuel engines equipped with advanced emission control systems that require the new fuel. These advanced emission control technologies will be required for marine diesel engines in 2014 and for locomotives in 2015.
The allowable sulfur content for ULSD (15 ppm) is much lower than the previous U.S. on-highway standard for low sulfur diesel (LSD, 500 ppm), which not only reduces emissions of sulfur compounds (a cause of acid rain), but also allows advanced emission control systems to be fitted that would otherwise be poisoned by these compounds. These systems can greatly reduce emissions of oxides of nitrogen and particulate matter.
Because this grade of fuel is comparable to European grades and engines will no longer have to be redesigned to cope with higher sulfur content and may use advanced emissions control systems which can be damaged by sulfur, the ULSD standard is increasing the availability of diesel-fueled passenger cars in the U.S. In Europe, diesel-engined automobiles have been much more popular with buyers than has been the case in the U.S.
Additionally, the EPA is assisting manufacturers with the transition to tougher emissions regulations by loosening them for model year 2007 to 2010 light-duty diesel engines.[5] As a result, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, and others are expecting to begin producing diesel vehicles for the U.S. market to join those from Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Volkswagen, and BMW. [6]
According to EPA estimates, with the implementation of the new fuel standards for diesel, nitrogen oxide emissions will be reduced by 2.6 million tons each year and soot or particulate matter will be reduced by 110,000 tons a year.
On June 1, 2006, U.S. refiners were required to produce 80% of their annual output as ULSD (15 ppm), and petroleum marketers and retailers were required to label[7] diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and kerosone pumps with EPA-authorized language disclosing fuel type and sulfur content. Other requirements effective June 1, 2006, including EPA-authorized language on Product Transfer Documents and sulfur-content testing standards, are designed to prevent misfueling, contamination by higher-sulfur fuels and liability issues. The EPA deadline for industry compliance to a 15 ppm sulfur content was originally set for July 15, 2006 for distribution terminals, and by September 1, 2006 for retail. But on November 8, 2005, the deadline was extended by 1.5 months to September 1, 2006 for terminals and October 15, 2006 for retail. In California, the extension was not granted and followed the original schedule. As of December, 2006, the ULSD standard has been in effect according to the amended schedule, and compliance at retail locations was reported to be in place.
Sulfur is not a lubricant in of itself, but it can combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can increase lubricity. The process used to reduce the sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change ASTM International (formerly the American Society for Testing and Materials) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005.[8]
The refining process that removes the sulfur also reduces the aromatic content and density of the fuel, resulting in a minor decrease in the energy content, by about 1%. This decrease in energy content may result in slightly reduced peak power and fuel economy.
The transition to ULSD is not without substantial costs. The US Government has estimated that pump prices for diesel fuel will increase between $.05 and $.25 per gallon as a result of the transition. And, according to the American Petroleum Institute, the domestic refining industry has invested over $8 Billion to comply with the new regulations.
ULSD will run in any engine designed for the ASTM D-975 diesel fuels.
It is, however, known to cause some seals to shrink (Source: Chevron paper) and may cause fuel pump failures in Volkswagen TDI engines used in pre-2009 models. TDI engines from 2009 and on are designed to use ULSD exclusively; biodiesel blends are reported to prevent that failure (Source: HRCCC.org Biodiesel Best Management Practices).
[edit
Trying to track ASTM spec's on diesel ,HHO and K1 at $45 per publication I will wait till I get to the library to check it out, BUT there are different spec's for all 3.
As of September 2007, most on-highway diesel fuel sold at retail locations in the United States is ULSD[4].
Ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel was proposed by EPA as a new standard for the sulfur content in on-road diesel fuel sold in the United States since October 15, 2006, except for rural Alaska. California has required it since September 1, 2006, and rural Alaska will transition all diesel to ULSD in 2010. This new regulation applies to all diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and distillate fuels blended with diesel for on-road use, such as kerosene, however, it does not yet apply to railroad locomotives, marine, or off road uses. By December 1, 2010, all highway diesel fuel will be ULSD. Non-road diesel fuel was required to move to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and further to ULSD in 2010. Railroad locomotive and marine diesel fuel also moved to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and will change to ULSD in 2012. There are exemptions for small refiners of nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel fuel that allow for 500 ppm diesel to remain in the system until 2014. After December 1, 2014 all highway, nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel fuel produced and imported will be ULSD.
The EPA mandated the use of ULSD fuel in model year 2007 and newer highway diesel fuel engines equipped with advanced emission control systems that require the new fuel. These advanced emission control technologies will be required for marine diesel engines in 2014 and for locomotives in 2015.
The allowable sulfur content for ULSD (15 ppm) is much lower than the previous U.S. on-highway standard for low sulfur diesel (LSD, 500 ppm), which not only reduces emissions of sulfur compounds (a cause of acid rain), but also allows advanced emission control systems to be fitted that would otherwise be poisoned by these compounds. These systems can greatly reduce emissions of oxides of nitrogen and particulate matter.
Because this grade of fuel is comparable to European grades and engines will no longer have to be redesigned to cope with higher sulfur content and may use advanced emissions control systems which can be damaged by sulfur, the ULSD standard is increasing the availability of diesel-fueled passenger cars in the U.S. In Europe, diesel-engined automobiles have been much more popular with buyers than has been the case in the U.S.
Additionally, the EPA is assisting manufacturers with the transition to tougher emissions regulations by loosening them for model year 2007 to 2010 light-duty diesel engines.[5] As a result, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, and others are expecting to begin producing diesel vehicles for the U.S. market to join those from Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Volkswagen, and BMW. [6]
According to EPA estimates, with the implementation of the new fuel standards for diesel, nitrogen oxide emissions will be reduced by 2.6 million tons each year and soot or particulate matter will be reduced by 110,000 tons a year.
On June 1, 2006, U.S. refiners were required to produce 80% of their annual output as ULSD (15 ppm), and petroleum marketers and retailers were required to label[7] diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and kerosone pumps with EPA-authorized language disclosing fuel type and sulfur content. Other requirements effective June 1, 2006, including EPA-authorized language on Product Transfer Documents and sulfur-content testing standards, are designed to prevent misfueling, contamination by higher-sulfur fuels and liability issues. The EPA deadline for industry compliance to a 15 ppm sulfur content was originally set for July 15, 2006 for distribution terminals, and by September 1, 2006 for retail. But on November 8, 2005, the deadline was extended by 1.5 months to September 1, 2006 for terminals and October 15, 2006 for retail. In California, the extension was not granted and followed the original schedule. As of December, 2006, the ULSD standard has been in effect according to the amended schedule, and compliance at retail locations was reported to be in place.
Sulfur is not a lubricant in of itself, but it can combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can increase lubricity. The process used to reduce the sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change ASTM International (formerly the American Society for Testing and Materials) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005.[8]
The refining process that removes the sulfur also reduces the aromatic content and density of the fuel, resulting in a minor decrease in the energy content, by about 1%. This decrease in energy content may result in slightly reduced peak power and fuel economy.
The transition to ULSD is not without substantial costs. The US Government has estimated that pump prices for diesel fuel will increase between $.05 and $.25 per gallon as a result of the transition. And, according to the American Petroleum Institute, the domestic refining industry has invested over $8 Billion to comply with the new regulations.
ULSD will run in any engine designed for the ASTM D-975 diesel fuels.
It is, however, known to cause some seals to shrink (Source: Chevron paper) and may cause fuel pump failures in Volkswagen TDI engines used in pre-2009 models. TDI engines from 2009 and on are designed to use ULSD exclusively; biodiesel blends are reported to prevent that failure (Source: HRCCC.org Biodiesel Best Management Practices).
[edit