HST over Geared tractor

[dex3361]

Speaking of the good old days I will have to say that the modern wet brakes that I have seen are hands down better than every older tractor I used (IH 424, Ford 8n, MF 35D, MF165D, MF135D and others).
Hears the ironic part with the HST I rarely use the brake for anything other than a parking brake.
I liked all of the old iron and still would like to have a few to tinker with. I have to say for the type of work that I do in the environment I do it in the HST is safer and faster than any I have used. I always felt threatened when I would clutch in the trans to shift from forward to reverse and am on a hill the brakes mashed real hard to hold me in a safe place. I am thinking at this point if 1 thing goes wrong I am going for a bad ride with an even worse landing. This one thing sold me on HST, when you go from forward to reverse the tractor doesn't go through a freewheeling moment. It may not be something that matters to others but I now go to those same places transition from forward to reverse and not even use the brake. Remember everybody operates different and what work well for me may not for you.

 

[jenkinsph]

That's an awfull vauge statement there.

A new tractor is safer and easier to operate than an old one?

Hmm..

Yep.. uh.. no not really.. can't drawn -any- usefull conclusions from that statement.

Lets compair my 75 ford 5000 ( same as a 65 by the way for the purpose of this argument ).. and my 2000 NH 7610s.

same op platform.. same twin stick crash box.. same hand throttle in the same place.. same on off switch ( same key fits either! ) same op controls and same info from the dash.


7610s does have flasers mounted differently.. but 5000 DOES have them.

rops are available for the 5000, so you can nix that difference.

takes the same amount of work to stomp either clutch and push a couple sticks into gear...

easier and safer huh... hmmm...

soundguy

Well you have to have enough intelligence to select the right tractor today.
If you look hard enough you can find a tractor without improvements which could be very much like your selections.

I am quite happy with improved tractors but your welcome to buy what you want.

 

[RoyJackson]

Roy,
Why not run an ehydro for a few years and get back to us.

I used to operate a buddy's 855 hydro. That's one reason I have a tractor now (not because of the hydro tranny though).
As far as buying an eHydro...nope. Just paid the 790 off last year and I'm not looking to replace a good tractor. I will admit I looked at a 3320 with power-reverser though. Had a backhoe too. Price was just under $20K, but I didn't make up my mind quick enough.
As far as the eHydro... I've little doubt I'll be able to get gear tranny components over the next 10-20 years. Odds are, the only thing I'll need eventually is a clutch. I'm not so sure about the electronic components for the eHydro.
Anyway, I am a very experienced manual tranny operator, I'm not in that big a hurry where the fractions of seconds a hydro may save could justify the costs and I'm the only operator of this tractor.
So, why waste the money?

Most of you guys use your tractor as big lawn mowers, so hydros work for you. The limited loader work or small farm ground engaging work wouldn't really justify any type of transmission choice for most TBNers. That pretty much applies to me too, as far as tasks. However, I prefer manual transmissions...simple as that.

Bottomline is, a hydro fan isn't going to change my mind and I really don't care what other folks spend their money on. But when hydro fans write stuff like "hydros are safer and more efficient"...well, they really don't have anything more to justify that then their opinion (just as I'm doing in this post). I'm pretty sure most haven't operated gear machines (or probably not a manual tranny in a car either), so they really don't have much to compare to.

The only time I'd recommend a hydro over a gear machine is for rentals. People renting equipment may have no experience with the equipment they're renting or care if they tear the equipment up. Some probably wouldn't know what a clutch is, let alone knowing not to ride a clutch.

BTW, I've been on TBN for about 10 years now. This discussion (in a multitude of threads) has been going on for as long as I've been on TBN and will probably continue long after I'm gone...

 

[nathansv6]

Hi, folks,
Its awesome I am getting a lot of response and I think I am starting to compare the HST and the geared version of trannies... Basically I am mechanical designer and I am trying to design my own transmission in near future for my farm tractor. Since I am working in hydraulic equipments field, I can't just give up my hydro and jump to mechanical. I think there is always pro and cons.
Thanks a lot to everyone who responsed to this thread.

 

[TripleR]

Speaking of the good old days I will have to say that the modern wet brakes that I have seen are hands down better than every older tractor I used (IH 424, Ford 8n, MF 35D, MF165D, MF135D and others).
Hears the ironic part with the HST I rarely use the brake for anything other than a parking brake.
I liked all of the old iron and still would like to have a few to tinker with. I have to say for the type of work that I do in the environment I do it in the HST is safer and faster than any I have used. I always felt threatened when I would clutch in the trans to shift from forward to reverse and am on a hill the brakes mashed real hard to hold me in a safe place. I am thinking at this point if 1 thing goes wrong I am going for a bad ride with an even worse landing. This one thing sold me on HST, when you go from forward to reverse the tractor doesn't go through a freewheeling moment. It may not be something that matters to others but I now go to those same places transition from forward to reverse and not even use the brake. Remember everybody operates different and what work well for me may not for you.

I use my geared Case and 10' rotary cutter on my levies and it is when backing down to the water's edge or other drop off that I would love to have an HST as I have to lock the brakes and clutch it to change directions. This is not a matter of experience as I have been driving tractors for over fifty years. On flat ground the clutch isn't a problem, but if I ever get a new tractor, it will be HST. My brother won't get near an HST and at the age of 58 bought his first truck with an automatic; different strokes.

 

[dex3361]

I use my geared Case and 10' rotary cutter on my levies and it is when backing down to the water's edge or other drop off that I would love to have an HST as I have to lock the brakes and clutch it to change directions. This is not a matter of experience as I have been driving tractors for over fifty years. On flat ground the clutch isn't a problem, but if I ever get a new tractor, it will be HST. My brother won't get near an HST and at the age of 58 bought his first truck with an automatic; different strokes.

You understand what I am saying and that nerve racking feeling of how bad it could get if your foot slips at or you miss the gear or you start sliding (and yes a HST can slide and IF you change ranges on and HST you can miss that gear). I like standard transmission machines but for me and how I operate safety is the deciding factor.

 

[Egon]

These days a fella has to define what type of geared transmission he's taking about cause in the agricultural section new tractors going out with the basic collar shift may have given way to the electronic controlled multi geared tractor that is shifted by a computer according to conditions as defined by the operator. These transmissions may be a tad more complicated than the collar shift too!

 

[bp fick]

In many (most) of the utility tractors, CUTs and certainly Sub Cuts, a gear isn't even offered. Which is a same, really. A gear might lower the price and give folks the option. Perhaps gearing up (pun intended) for this proves too costly for the manufacturers. That seems logical.

I have driven nothing but 4 and 5 speed pickups the last 40 years. Until it was retired, our first MF tractor, used over 40 years, was a gear, of course (see avatar).

The Kubota BX was purchased recently and had no option. Simple as that. My only comment is I can drive them all. My wife's car is an automatic, which is fine. My only input is this. What I would not do is compare an HST to an automatic transmission in a car. They do not operate the same and the comparison is incorrect.

Beyond that, this conversation might be helpful for someone considering a tractor that offers a choice, but little else. This deal is way, way overblown. See you around TBN.

 

[TripleR]

You understand what I am saying and that nerve racking feeling of how bad it could get if your foot slips at or you miss the gear or you start sliding (and yes a HST can slide and IF you change ranges on and HST you can miss that gear). I like standard transmission machines but for me and how I operate safety is the deciding factor.

I know that "feeling" all too well and for me, I feel safer with an HST. My father in law died of a heart attack while driving this tractor and we just can't stand the thought of selling or trading it, so I will keep using it and dealing with the high "pucker factor".

 

[TripleR]

In many (most) of the utility tractors, CUTs and certainly Sub Cuts, a gear isn't even offered. Which is a same, really. A gear might lower the price and give folks the option. Perhaps gearing up (pun intended) for this proves too costly for the manufacturers. That seems logical.

I have driven nothing but 4 and 5 speed pickups the last 40 years. Until it was retired, our first MF tractor, used over 40 years, was a gear, of course (see avatar).

The Kubota BX was purchased recently and had no option. Simple as that. My only comment is I can drive them all. My wife's car is an automatic, which is fine. My only input is this. What I would not do is compare an HST to an automatic transmission in a car. They do not operate the same and the comparison is incorrect.

Beyond that, this conversation might be helpful for someone considering a tractor that offers a choice, but little else. This deal is way, way overblown. See you around TBN.

My comparisons to an automatic are in relation to the absence/necessity of using/not using a clutch, not the internal mechanism.