HVAC SEER2?

[ponytug]

What refrigerant are new units using?

I believe 410a is going away but I see lots of 410a installs.

Anyone have a preference between R32 or R454b?

@Sigarms is more knowledgeable than me, but I don't think it is simple. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. R32 is slightly flammable, but more efficient, higher capacity, with low GWP, R454b is less efficient, but not flammable, and lower GWP. R454b was designed as a drop in replacement for R410, and R32 may work in some R410 systems.

An HVAC Technician’s Guide To R-32

Change is coming once again to the HVACR industry, as there is a growing movement to transition from R-410A to lower-GWP refrigerants.

www.achrnews.com

The Battle of Refrigerants: R-32 vs. R-454B

As the world strives to reduce its carbon footprint, the HVAC industry has actively sought alternative refrigerants to replace hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs), which have a high global warming potential (GWP). The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) began the HFC phase-out plan in 2022, intending...

www.hoffmech.com

Then there is R-744. More complicated to manage and install, but with lots of advantages.

Demystifying CO2 Refrigeration - HVAC Insider

An introduction to the characteristics, nuances and applications of an emerging natural refrigerant By Andre Patenaude, Director, Solutions Strategy, Emerson The use of CO2 as a refrigerant (R-744) in commercial refrigeration is expected to rise significantly in the U.S. over the next several...

hvacinsider.com

Cheat sheet;

All the best,

Peter

 

[Sigarms]

What refrigerant are new units using?

I believe 410a is going away but I see lots of 410a installs.

Anyone have a preference between R32 or R454b?

The government changed things up...

End of last year, the gameplan was no more 410A equipment to be sold starting January 1st, 2025.

What that means was ANY existing inventory in 2024 of R410A would have to be sold out and the crap would have hit the fan because R454B and R32 would have to be in inventory prior to 2025.

End of last year, things got changed. R410A equipment can still be produced until the end of 2024, and ANY R410A HVAC equipment can not be installed January 1st, 2026.

Basically, the government pushed the mandate back by a year.

Going into 2026....

R454B =York, Carrier, Lennon, Rheem, Nordyne and everyone (subsidiaries of everyone listed) else but Daikin or Goodman.

R32 - Daikin / Goodman (and there is a reason LOL).

Right now, there is some scuttlebutt that Daikin / Goodman is rethinking R32 because come 2029, R32 isn't going to hit the mandatory compliant GWP number (Global Warming Potential) in 2029.

Ductless mini splits FYI will be a total cluster because the majority are going R32, which will be good for 3-4 years and then have to change as well.

I will replace two systems next year. This is what I stocked up on for my own house for all 3 potential systems LOL

I still have a jug of R22 on one system I replaced around 2003 because I didn't trust the R410A systems when they first came out LOL (now, I have two systems using R410A).

 

[Sigarms]

R454b was designed as a drop in replacement for R410, and R32 may work in some R410 systems.

There is no drop in replacement.

It will be illegal to even try to convert a residential or commercial HVAC system from R410A to R454B or R32.

R454B and R32 is considered a A2L refrigerant. R410A is considered a HFC refrigerant.

The new A2L compatible HVAC equipment will have a mitigation device in the indoor air handler or coil as well as "spark proof" electrical connections in the outdoor unit.

People are freaked because the A2L refrigerant contains a higher propensity of flamable materials (thus the mitigation device in the indoor unit and sparkproof connections on the outdoor unit). Thing is, guys doing commercial refrigeration have been using pretty much straight LP for some years now.

It appears that R-744 has it's own issues even though its GPW is 1. May not seem like a big issue, but I can assure you if it works and it's helps keep production costs down, it will be looked at, but the added issue is CO2.

FYI, manufactuers knew in 2009 that R410A was going away, but that wasn't going to happen in another 10 years so even if you freaked out about it, no one cared LOL

The auto industry can't hold a candle to the HVAC industry

Note, thanks for the "like". I keep stating AL2 instead of A2L LOL

HFC is in the A1 catagory, and likewise, numerous refrigerants are in the A2L catagory.

ponytug, for whatever reason, your cheat sheet dosen't include the A2L's, which is what manufacturers will be using to produce equipment. Keep in mind, you can find R454B and R32 equipment in the wild now.

Here is the thing though, if every manufacturer decided to use a different A2L for their equipment, it would be kind of chaotic in the field. It's kind of chaotic now between R32 and R454B, and thats two choices.

 

[ultrarunner]

The new ice makers list propane refrigerant and 4 years... so far so good and these are inside the hospital.

The costs for the operating room HVAC just continue up and up.

Bottom line is what cost 65k Dec 1999 (50 ton with 2 new compressors, coils, condenser fans, etc.) is no longer available...

The work arounds are hundreds of thousands plus long lead and down time...

Exciting times to be in the HVAC field to be sure.

 

[Sigarms]

The new ice makers list propane refrigerant and 4 years... so far so good and these are inside the hospital.

That's the thing, some guys are freaked out that the residential systems will have "some" flamability with R32 or R454B, and refrigeration guys have been using propane for years.