Ice melter and new concrete drive

[JB4310]

700 feet of concrete driveway! WHY? Don't get me wrong I think it's beautiful looking,(like to see pics of the finished drive) but since you live in an area of freezing temps I would be worried about all the possible problems in a freeze/thaw zone like surface spalling, regardless of the use of deicing agents, heaving and cracking.

The attention to detail finishing the surface of such a large project properly to insure long life in a freeze zone must have been monumental.

In the old days concrete was finished with Portland cement on the top and covered with burlap (kept wet) for a week.
In lieu of a Portland cement top the surface needs to agitated vigoursly to set the stone down and bring the cream up before finishing the surface. That's how they did it in the good old days to get a very hard weatherproof top, now it's screed it, strike it, broom it, strip it and walk on it in 2 days, I see concrete walks spalling after a winter or two sometimes.
That said even without such attention to detail concrete is pretty durable stuff and most work holds up pretty well, sidewalks, small slabs and pool decks that is, here in New England the few drives I've seen have not fared well.

 

[Egon]

In lieu of a Portland cement top the surface needs to agitated vigoursly to set the stone down and bring the cream up before finishing the surface.

Could this cause segregation and a high water/cement ratio on this surface layer?

 

[JB4310]

Not sure what you mean about segregation, it is a balance between to much slurry on the surface and aggregate to close to the surface, both can cause premature deterioration in freezing climates.
My agitate vigorously wording may be to strong a term but I was trying to compare to not enough surface attention, the quick screeding and insufficient floating prevalent today.

Ultimately concrete's life expectancy all comes down to that thin surface layers protection, (referring to slabs) once that's compromised it's just a matter of time.

Not being critical, only concerned. My hats off to WBWI for achieving such a herculean task!

 

[Egon]

The Portland cement Association website has lots of good "Concrete Information".

 

[WBWI]

Still struggling with the ice and now snow. My wife and I bought ice cleats for our boots and continue to park at the bottom of the driveway and walk to the house. With no warm weather in sight I don't expect to drive up to my house any time soon.

As far as installing such a long concrete driveway, well my wife and I built our dream home and plan to live there as long as we can. We're in our mid 40's so I'm hoping it will be a very long time. We're in a rural subdivision that does require a finished drive. We had 2 options, asphalt (when oil was trading at $140/barrel) or concrete. I did not want to maintain that much asphalt for the next 30 years so we chose concrete. It is 5" thick, 6.5 bag mix, wire mesh reinforced with rebar at all the joints. Maybe we'll learn an expensive lesson that freeze/thaw and frost cycles destroy driveways in the midwest but thats what we chose to do.

 

[Egon]

My wife and I bought ice cleats for our boots

That was a very good decision as was cement over asphalt for the driveway.

If the temperatures are right use some salt. Your driveway will survive.

 

[JB4310]

Maybe we'll learn an expensive lesson that freeze/thaw and frost cycles destroy driveways in the midwest but thats what we chose to do.

That's the right attitude, someone on here has a quote in their sig line that goes like "a real problem is something money can't fix"
Not worth loosing sleep over.

Back to your orig question, we've got to get you up your driveway, walking 700 feet across the WI ice shelf to get to your house can't be a dream come true. I would refrain from using any deicing agents this year, that would promote freeze/thaw cycles, right now you have sort of a protective layer on there with the ice.

You can try a coarse, course sand, like that used in concrete, the problem is how to spread it, the best way (to do it yourself) I've seen here is a 3pt fertilizer spreader, the other option is a local plow man with a 1 ton size truck with spreader, have him get a load of straight sand, he may be able to back up the drive while spreading thus providing the traction he needs.

That area you show in the pic with +10% grade and sharp corner, is gonna be tough, you may need a guard rail on that corner, your drive is crowned high, if some one gets 2 tires on the same side of a vehicle off the edge they may end up rolling it.
You have to keep your nose facing down hill even if your sliding into the woods, don't want to get perpendicular to the grade.

The picture shows a quality job, what's the experience of the contractor who did it? have they done others in your local, with what results?

 

[WBWI]

That's the right attitude, someone on here has a quote in their sig line that goes like "a real problem is something money can't fix"
Not worth loosing sleep over.

Back to your orig question, we've got to get you up your driveway, walking 700 feet across the WI ice shelf to get to your house can't be a dream come true. I would refrain from using any deicing agents this year, that would promote freeze/thaw cycles, right now you have sort of a protective layer on there with the ice.

You can try a coarse, course sand, like that used in concrete, the problem is how to spread it, the best way (to do it yourself) I've seen here is a 3pt fertilizer spreader, the other option is a local plow man with a 1 ton size truck with spreader, have him get a load of straight sand, he may be able to back up the drive while spreading thus providing the traction he needs.

That area you show in the pic with +10% grade and sharp corner, is gonna be tough, you may need a guard rail on that corner, your drive is crowned high, if some one gets 2 tires on the same side of a vehicle off the edge they may end up rolling it.
You have to keep your nose facing down hill even if your sliding into the woods, don't want to get perpendicular to the grade.

The picture shows a quality job, what's the experience of the contractor who did it? have they done others in your local, with what results?

Contractor has been pouring concrete 25+ years, most of his crew has been with him 15+ years. He does drives, walks etc and commercial work(floors, machine foundations, etc) so I'm confident in his workmanship. All references were good (as I imagine they would be if I was in his shoes). If there were any issues they were handled without question.

I've though about some type of curb/guard rail in the corner. I've almost gone over the edge twice in my truck. Both times I was well aware of the conditions and moving as slowly as possible. Gravity and ice are a powerful combination. Here is photo of where my truck would have been if I would have gone over.

I may have a load of sand delivered so I can spread it myself. I will have to broadcast it by hand unless I can convice my wife I need a 3pt hitch mounted spreader. I want to minimize the use of chemical deicer because of fear of long term damage to the trees and wild flowers.

I appreciate the comments and suggestions.

 

[jdbower]

You can always ask the contractor what he recommends for your area, but I'd imagine something like Driveway Heat (Calcium Chloride) coupled with investing in a good washing and sealing in the spring should be a good pairing.

 

[PBinWA]

One thing to consider with curbs is that they can make it harder to plow snow off the road.

I live in an area with a steep private road that ices up in the winter. We use a lot of straight 1/4 inch crushed gravel on the road in the winter. The key is to try and keep everything plowed as best you can and then get a good layer of coarse stone down for the traction.

Our road is Asphalt so I do use salt on it too. I did have some concrete that I put salt on this year and it flaked a bit. It is around 14 years old and a little neglected so I am not surprised that it happened. Now I have some motivation to try and pretty it up this summer.

I have a "beater" F350 with V-Bar chains that I use when it's bad. My wife prefers to just park at the bottom of the hill and walk. Going up isn't usually as scary as coming down.

I think the key is for you to keep the drive as clear as possible during storms and put down some gravel when it gets icy. Perhaps an ATV with chains or an old beater truck with chains for the winter.