Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web?

   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #41  
I'm about to reply to both the quoted messages as if they were posted by the same person. Sorry, I know that's lazy but I hope you can both ascertain which words are meant to address which quote.

I am not a socialist; I don't subscribe to the idea of an evil corporate elite and I don't aim to intentionally take money out of the pockets of an honest company that tries to offer an honest product. Nor am I an anarchist who wishes to thumb my nose at the government and side-step every law that I can, just because. I (mostly) believe in emissions controls and I don't want to roll coal on my tractor. I merely believe in the sovereignty of ownership, and what I paid for, I get to do with as I wish (within the confines of the law). I respect John Deere's Intellectual Property and I would not intentionally and knowingly download pirated versions of their expensive programming software. I recognize the investment that they made, and I would not steal that from them. However, if I were to purchase a John Deere tractor (I wouldn't), I would not respect John Deere's claim of continued ownership over the software contents of MY tractor. I would have no moral or ethical qualms about hacking the tractor. Just as I have none in regards to hacking my own LS tractor. The only reason I haven't hacked my own, is lack of experience and confidence.

A quick aside... I own a Flir E4 thermal camera. I bought the camera with the express intent to hack it. Flir sell the "E" line of cameras with a range of resolutions from 80x60 pixels (E4, $949) to 320x240 pixels (E8, $2,999). All the cameras in that product line are exactly the same. Same hardware, different firmware. My E4 camera has the same 320x240 pixel sensor as the E8, and I hacked the camera to remove the sofware handicap which limited it to 80x60 pixels. I now have an equivalent E8 camera and I only paid 1/3 the price for it. I (somewhat) understand and respect Flir's business strategy; they want to offer a range of cameras with varying functionality appealing to different markets; this allows them to make more sales. They want to have a "cheap" camera that someone like me would buy, as well as a more expensive, more functional version that a bigger company might invest in. But, having multiple production lines running concurrently, pumping out physically different cameras, apparently costs more than what they're doing. So they just standardize on one set of physical components and sell it with varying degrees of self-imposed limitations. Wacky, but it seems to work for them. I respect their decision on how they choose to do business, but once I've paid them $949 for a camera and taken possession of it, it's mine, and I'll do whatever I want with it, up to and including removing their self defeating code.

LS is doing the same thing. My 40HP tractor is physically exactly the same as the 45HP, 50HP and the 55HP tractor. Same engine, same emissions system, physically the same in every way except the programming in the ECU. I've bought the tractor and it's mine. I'll unlock that extra 15HP if I so please (so long as it's not illegal in DMCA terms, of which I'm not 100% certain of yet). If LS can get 55HP out of this engine without exceeding EPA emissions limits, then so can I. I don't want to kill the planet or my engine. I just want to get the best possible return on my investment. Nothing personal against LS, I respect their decision on how they run their business, but now that I've made the purchase, the decision about what to do with it is mine.


What he said ^^^

Too many confuse what we want to do (unlock our equipment so we can work on and/or modify it) to what the Copyright Laws were intended to prevent -- Outsiders stealing the technology to either use on their own OEM equipment or to sell it to others.

In fact, when the Copyright Office ruled against Deere, they got themselves in such a snit they remotely locked out owners of some of their equipment until they signed a new EULA (End User License Agreement) that benefited Deere. They remotely shut them down so they wouldn't start. That happened in California, IIRC.

If it goes no further than your own barn, I don't see the harm in that. At all. In any way, shape or form.

The only harm is that the OEM can't rip your head off on repairs and service.

And what are owners that are trapped in this situation supposed to do if/when Deere loses interest in repairing their tractors in 15 years or so? What if another company buys them? Or what if they decide that making and supplying certain parts just isn't worth their time??

What are they supposed to do, throw their tractors in the garbage?
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #42  
Strantor,

LS is doing the same thing. My 40HP tractor is physically exactly the same as the 45HP, 50HP and the 55HP tractor. Same engine, same emissions system, physically the same in every way except the programming in the ECU. I've bought the tractor and it's mine. I'll unlock that extra 15HP if I so please (so long as it's not illegal in DMCA terms, of which I'm not 100% certain of yet). If LS can get 55HP out of this engine without exceeding EPA emissions limits, then so can I. I don't want to kill the planet or my engine. I just want to get the best possible return on my investment. Nothing personal against LS, I respect their decision on how they run their business, but now that I've made the purchase, the decision about what to do with it is mine.

I want to address that point separately.

My Ram Cummins has three different tunes from the Factory. All of them based on which transmission you get.

The G56 Manual 6-speed is the least powerful. It's de-tuned down to around 660 lb-feet of torque because manuals just won't take the power an automatic will.

My 2500 is de-tuned down to 800 lb-ft of torque because it has the Chrysler 68R trans. A decent tranny but not as strong as the Aisin (japanese) transmission.

The Aisin (in the 3500 only) has all the power you can muster, mister. What is it? I forget...... 940+ ??

And on the Cummins you can tune those things to 1,000 Horsepower and 1,500 lbs of torque with breaking a sweat.

Generic Motors and Ford give you their same engine on their pickups. They don't offer a manual. But they're tuned as much as a Ram.

Tuners been breaking down their computer codes fro quite a while. There's a lot of them out there.

When you've got a Turbo and Common Rail injection along with some other goodies, you can do a lot if you know how.

But the OEM knows. And if you get into the computer, you void any warranty that's left on it.

Which is fine. Who wants to lose a warranty? I don't but a lot of people don't care. They just don't care.

And that's their choice, as it should be. Deere doesn't give you a choice. You buy it, you pay (too much) for it but --

They still own it.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #43  
Maybe, I live in a little different world. I have never seen a Deere machine be locked out from the owner. I still have a lot of friends with large farms and a lot of equipment, Deere and others. They all work on their own machines, dealer does the warranty. Most don't have the time for the computer stuff and don't want to touch it.
As far as ownership of the software. The next time that you buy a program for your computer, office, turbo tax, etc., you should note the fine print in that your are not purchasing the software, but licensing it for use. We have customers that turn the pressure up on their tractors all the time. They blow hoses and sometimes a lot more.
I have a LS XR4150. Would I like the power turned up? Not while under warranty. A better question might be, why doesn't LS turn them all the way up? I have not done the research myself. I do not know if there are any other changes between the engines, other than the ECU. I do believe that the more power, the more stress you put on the parts.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #44  
Maybe, I live in a little different world. I have never seen a Deere machine be locked out from the owner. <snip>

A farmer has an independent mechanic shop put a new transmission in his tractor (not all models, but many) but it won't get out of the garage until you PAY a JOHN DEERE Tech $250 plus $130 AN HOUR to drive out there and hook up a JOHN DEERE diagnostic machine to their USB port and authorize the part.

That is just FACT.

Unless you choose to believe that all these thousands of Farmers are lying.

And John Deere claiming to be looking out for their customers so they don't over-power their machines and hurt themselves or their tractor?

How touching.

I'm done with this topic. Just thought I'd mention it. Wish I hadn't.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #45  
What you are looking at is the tractor TCU doesn't match what the tractor says should be in it. If a new tractor TCU has to be installed it must be programmed for the tractor. As I said, we do that when a customer buys the TCU at no additional charge. It can be purchased from Deere with it already programmed. Some of the large rock trucks will have as many as 5 computers on them. They have to talk to each other to work. The transmission control unit(TCU) has to talk to the ECU. This does stop people from moving the newer parts between tractors. Someone can not steal the TCU from your tractor to replace a bad one. If only the metal is replaced, they do not have to reprogram anything. As with a lot of the electronic parts, they can not be found on the used parts market. And most electronic parts can not be repaired. This is designed into the equipment. Do we like it, NO.
If you don't want all of the electronics, buy used if you can find it.
We have a local guy that works near us and repairs large equipment all of the time. Rebuilds engines, transmissions, diff and all. Never any electronics. We see about 30% of everything that he does, due to it breaking again. 50% of what he does goes to auction.
Will this get better in the future, I don't think so. Not on the large equipment. I hope it never gets to the small equipment. As the EPA puts more standards on diesel engines, companies are doing everything they can to meet the standards. A lot use other peoples engines.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #46  
Thread digging a bit but back to the original topic, anyone willing to share the service manuals for an xr4040? My dealer...has left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #47  
hate to dig up an old thread but im looking for a mnual for a xr3135
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #48  
hate to dig up an old thread but im looking for a mnual for a xr3135

I would ask your Dealer for a digital download of the Service Manual. They are certainly a "Must Have".
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #49  
Strantor - I desperately need a copy as well. Many thanks if you can help! My dealer is over an hour away and the service manual would make life a lot easier. It definitely did on my last tractor (S3010).
 
   / Is there a *real* service manual for XR series, and what are they selling on the web? #50  
Funny Story...

I sent an email to another LS Tractor dealership in out of state, telling the story about how my dealer said the manuals didn't exist. I basically told them (abridged version), "Look, I'm several hundred miles outside your region and would never bring my tractor there for service, so you have nothing to lose. I'm not stupid, I know they exist, Please sell me the manuals." They told me that they would upload the manuals to their server so that I could download them and they would delete them from the server, no charge (although I had already committed to purchasing a replacement hard copy user's manual). But before they would upload the manuals, they wanted to know the name of the dealer I bought from, who wouldn't give me the manuals. I told them I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble or make waves, I just want the manuals, and I don't want to burn the only bridge I have for local LS Tractor parts. They assured me it was just to soothe their curiosity, so I dropped a name and got my manuals. As I'm in the process of downloading the manuals, I get an email from the owner of the dealership I bought from, same guy who called me yesterday evening to confirm (again) that the manuals didn't exist, saying "sorry for the confusion, here's some links to the manuals." And no explanation as to how he got my email address.

So now I have two copies of PDF service manuals, and they don't match. Apparently there have been some changes to the manuals which were not carried out in the normal way of a change log and revision numbers. Both sets of books say "rev.1" but they are not the same. One set is 784 pages and the other is 1,366 pages. I called and cancelled my order for the 420 page hardcopy manual from LStractorParts, and I still don't know what that book is. I'm not willing to pay $300 to find out, either.

I'm a happy camper now.


I had a very similar issue, reached out to the LS corporate folks I met at the Bristol race they hosted me at, telling specifically that I didn't want to involve the dealership. LS figured out who I was and contacted the dealership anyways. They were rude and pissed that I pulled the corp card. That led to a whole round of emails to corp about crappy service, ineptitude, with dates, emails, etc. Corp passed all that back to the dealership who got even more unruly... Wound up going to a New Holland dealer and got everything I needed, and even maintenance parts since then.

Lynch Equipment Sales in Columbia TN sucks donkey tail. Can't believe that they are still even in business with the way Todd treats people.
 
 
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