Loss of Civility on the Forums

[SteveH_CT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Lastly, Since the JD dealer claims that Kubota's transmissions and differentials are not the greatest ( another JD lie) ask the JD dealer who makes the CUT line for them? (hint it is not John Deere) Either way GOOD Luck with your decision. )</font>

I’ve quoted above yet another in the unending outpouring of ignorant and unnecessary posts that are becoming all too common on the board (IMHO). Is it possible we are getting way too much of this type of mis-information going in almost every brand related post that is on the board? I’ve been on the board for less than a year, but in a very short time I’ve seen the level of civility drop to abysmal levels. It’s just my opinion – but I for one am getting really tired of reading garbage like this. It dilutes the usefulness of this forum, and clogs up far too many posts with hyperbole and down right rude remarks.

Come on everyone – please! Can we raise the bar and start having grown up conversations again about tractors and their uses? If someone asks a question about one tractor comparing it to another, please don’t take it as a quest to swing the person over to your brand… self justification is not the purpose of these conversations – relaying helpful information is. Unless I missed something, nobody here gets a commission if they get someone to buy their brand. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks,

 

[JerryG]

As bad as it is, about this time of year we have a little spurt. The real bad time, seems to be during the winter.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'm going to take a differnet approach and ask a question. Exactly what part of the post was not civil? I had been following that thread about the JD versus Kubota and I did see the quote you posted again above. To me it looked like a correction to a misstatement that was made by an unethical sales rep trying to confuse a new tractor buyer. Granted the poster might not have condemed the entire JD corporation for the "lie" told by a sales rep at one of its dealerships, but the point remains that the dealer was the one who brought up the low quality of the other brand, and even mentioned that it was in that other brand's large machines, which had nothing to do with what the original guy was even shopping for. My take is that the sales rep was using a tactic that would be considered a "fireable offence" at my company.

So the way I see it, the quote you posted could have possibly been worded a bit more carefully, but it simply goes to the point that many an unethical sales person will try to dupe through deception, omission and other lowly tactics, an unwitting and unknowlegable buyer.

What did I miss?

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Bob, the salesman was wrong and unethical. But the comment that the CUT line is made for them is just as wrong. The whole point of this board is to disseminate accurate, helpful, and fun information. That response isn't.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Bob, the salesman was wrong and unethical. But the comment that the CUT line is made for them is just as wrong. The whole point of this board is to disseminate accurate, helpful, and fun information. That response isn't. )</font>


I thought JD's line of CUTs was a contract production made by Yanmar to the JD specs. Just like NH's line of CUTs is a contract production made by Shibura (sp?). Just like the largest Cub Cadets are a contract production made by Kioti. Etc Etc Etc

When did JD bring their CUT production in house? Because that would be news to me. And please don't misunderstand, I love my JD lawnmower with its Kawasaki engine, it is the best mower I've ever owned. I love my NH but I don't pretend to think it was made in a NH factory. It was assembled in Georgia in a NH facility from parts shipped here in crates from Japan; just like the JD line of CUTs. And that is not a bad thing.

 

[SteveH_CT]

Bob - I used that as one example of mis-information. You must recall the posts that have had to be closed due to the fact that they degenerate into nothing but childish "mine is better than yours" type of arguments. Maybe it's always been here, but lately I'm noticing a lot more of this type of conversation. It all starts off fine, then someone drops a bomb on the conversation, and away we go again. As we speak there was another post in another section about brand bashing... it really needs to stop. At least to me, none of this is helpful, informative, or anywhere near funny.

And regarding the post I quoted, another JD lie... how many are there anyway??? Does JD post a pdf manual of lies... If they do I haven't gotten mine yet. And the reference to where the CUTS are built... come one... hasn't this one been beaten to a pulp???

If you enjoy these types of threads you and I see things differently. If you look at my posts earlier in the thread we're talking about I recommended the Kubota... it seems like a better match for this fellow. I think the bottom line is that some of our members take selling their brand to an almost religious zeal.

 

[SteveH_CT]

Well that's not entirely correct... There are a great many parts on my 4310 that clearly state made in USA. Assembly is in USA at a JD plant, or factory, whatever we want to call it. And then there is that Yanmar engine... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I would totally agree that some of the threads do degenerate. And I did agree on your original posted quote that it was not accurate for the guy who wrote it to assign the blame to JD corporate, when the blame falls squarely on the dealership & its sales rep. So I do think that we tend to agree overall, but perhaps not on some of the specifics.

I think it boils down to a few things, one of which is that people are too brand loyal and become blind to any critical analysis of the brand of machine they buy. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that some members talk of their brand with an evangalistic zeal. Because I have 4 different tractors from 4 different manufacturers, and machine from JD and a few other manufacturers in my garage as well, I try to be COLORBLIND with regard to brand. I will be critical of a dealer. I will be critical of my own equipment (read some of my posts about using the loader on my B2910). But I think I am accurate. Just like I was/am accurate about most of the parts of a JD CUT coming over from Japan, not just the Yanmar engine. And most of the parts of the NH in my garage being Shibaru (spelling?), not just the engine. And it is true that the wheels and some other parts are slapped on in a factory in the good old USA, and some of those parts are even made here, the bulk of these machines are Japanese. Again there is nothing wrong with that. And a JD should not be confused with a Yanmar any more than a NH should be confused with a Shibaru because both are made to spec and are exclusive designs. But the reality is JD has Yanmar make their stuff, and no Yanmar looks like a JD because Yanmar can't market the JD designs as their own. The majority of the castings come from Japan, as does the engine and transmission. That is not criticism, it is just statement of fact. It is also my understanding that the JD/Yanmar agreements are coming to an end and JD will be changing their production over the next few years as various contracts expire. I don't know who will be making the CUTs for JD, it might even be that JD makes them for themselves someday?

In my mind nothing will ever make my New Holland CUT an American product. The company is owned by FIAT of Italy, so even if it was made here (which it is not) I would never consider it American. But it is still a darn good tractor, and from where I sit, probably the best ergonomically designed units available right now. But while the NH CUTs are owned by Italians, they are made in Japan and assembled in America with SOME parts that are made here.

 

[SteveH_CT]

Well said - I agree on all points... I don't know if there are many truly and purely "American Made" products out there anymore.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Some of the JD CUTs are as you say.

The 4210 and larger are USA made using Yanmar engines. The transmissions are not Yanmars, The eHydros are made by Sauer Danfos.