MF 165 Engine Break Down - Comments welcome Please

[dmark1975]

Hi all,

I have attached some pictures of my MF165 (1974) which I have stripped the engine down to investigate oil coming out of the exhaust during operation. Any comment welcome on the pictures to see what you all think. There was no oil or water mixing in cooling system or in oil. Do you think I need to keep going and strip engine further or do you think a clean up and seals will sort problem after I replace the seals on the valves?

Also what could I do to remove the rust and build up?

I will add I am no expert on any but am willing and able!
Thanks in advance

 

[Masseywrench]

I wish you would have taken a picture of the the other side of the head showing the valves but other than that... awesome great pics.

When you say oil in the exhaust, do you mean its blowing actual liquid drops of oil out the pipe or is it smoking really bad.
Does it use alot of oil? How much do you have to add and how often?

Are you getting any blow by out the blow by tube coming off the valve cover? Is it spitting oil there or puffs of smoke, or nothing at all?

Since you have the head off, go ahead and break it on down and check the valve guides and see how much play you have in them.
I would almost take the head to a machine shop and have a proper valve job done on it but you can lap the valves if the guides are tight.
If you have never compressed valve springs and released the keepers, use caution and a good backstop as they can get away from you.

On the other side of the head, (looking at the bottom of the valves) do you see any signs of a burnt valve?

Any thing odd in the teardown - bent pushrods? bad loose rocker arm?
Take a good flashlight and look down into the holes and look at the surface of the lifters and inspect those really well.

Your cylinders look good (normal), not what I would have expected from what you are saying it was doing.
If you have a way to properly measure the diameter of the cylinders, that would be good to know as well.

Lastly - that corrosion is some of the worst I have ever seen in all my years of doing this, and I have no clue how you will get that out of there while its still in the frame. I am sure there are some cleaners out there that will knock some of that out but thats pretty bad. Did the antifreeze have a rancid smell to it?

 

[dmark1975]

Thanks for the reply!!

I was going to take some pictures of the valve heads but I had the block sitting in some degreaser when I took the photos. I will take some and post them before dismantling the valves. I've stripped a lister petter before so have an idea how those springs like to travel!! I bought the correct tool after a near miss

In reply to some of your questions:

There is evidence of oil contamination at the base of the exhaust @ the manifold where the silencer is attached when the engine is running. I really noticed this after I fitted a cap to the exhaust. It never seemed to spit oil out of the exhaust and I have never intentionally topped the engine up with oil. (Unfortunately I never checked the oil level before I emptied it before strip so I've no idea) I have not noticed any oil coming out of the breather tube either and there is no major evidence of this from looking at the inside of the tube for residue. The smoke is more white than anything but is alittle blue/black.

I did notice that when I began dismantling the two outer rocker nuts were tight and secure but the two inner ones were very loose with approx. 1cm of play on each one which I presume would have affected the rocker shaft and the rods. The wear on the rockers is very even with no grooves or grinding. There was a lot of black smudge in this area and some evidence of small deposits of oil sitting in the pan. Rods appear ok but have slight curve on them. I have put them in degreaser to clean and inspect so will have a look at them next. When I took the head off everything looked pretty good. Head gasket still very intact with no obvious damage anywhere. There was very little deposits in the pistons and used hoover to take out. Looked like carbon deposits.

One of the lifters appears to be higher than the others but need a good light to really have a look at this and try to picture.

As for the corrosion I don't know what to do, I may have no option but to strip it just to enable the descaling of the engine.

I will get back to you with some additional pictures.

I'm terribly excited about doing this but equally scared

 

[Agvg]

Some engines does spitt out some black fluid if they only is used for light work.
Some hours with hard use often fix the problem.

 

[dmark1975]

I'm beginning to wonder that myself looking at the internals now Agvg!! The tractor needed a lot of TLC cosmetically and Im assuming it sat up for years before I bought it off a dealer for not bad money! I knew what I was buying but had no idea what to look out for! I like a challenge

 

[Masseywrench]

When I read your post I took from it that it was blowing oil out of the pipe, but now that you posted the reply, I feel better about the engine.

I think Agvg is right. Some of the older tractors with some hours on them will smoke (mostly white) when they are first started. Once they come up to operating temperature most of them will clear up enough that you wont notice it. He is also correct in that they need to be worked to keep them running properly. Once they are at operating temp you should be able to go from idle instantly to 75% to 80% throttle with just a brief puff of black smoke till the engine catches up with the injector pump. So a little black smoke under a brief load is somewhat normal. If its a constant heavy smoke, some changes to your settings need to be made, whether its a gear change or a lighter depth of cut on your implement.

How many hours does the hour meter show?

As for the lifters being different heights, that is normal, depending on the position of the cam lobe. So when you tore the engine apart and found the lifter raised higher than the other, that would be raising the push rod, pushing on the rocker arm, making that valve open. That is why some rocker arms feel tight when you wiggle them. If they do wiggle a small bit, that actually is normal is the valves are set properly.
When your piston come to TDC (top dead center) on the compression stroke (firing), you can and should be able to wiggle both the intake and exhaust rockers on that cylinder since you dont want any down pressure on the springs because you want the valves completely closes at that very moment.

Chances are there is nothing wrong with the motor or the internals, but since its apart, check your valve guides and if you find nothing wrong with them, lap the valves in and put it back together.
Take your injectors and have them tested and check the spray pattern of the nozzles and make sure that chatter with a mist of diesel versus just spraying out a solid stream of it. This will cause some of the smoking issues. You probably need new nozzles if they have never been changed out. Make sure that they look up the two letter code on the injector and set the pressure correctly on them.
For instance I just recently did a set of injectors that had a tag attached under the bottom of the two caps that read A N . So I look up A N for that motor and it tells me working pressure and setting pressure. Working pressure was 2500 psi but the setting pressure is 2600 psi. So they will remove the top cap, loosen the bottom one which is actually a jam nut for the adjuster. They perform a test on all of them and adjust them accordingly to the pressure results.

Be sure to install new sealing washer on the bottom of the injector make sure you have all 4 of the old ones in your hand and that you didnt leave one down in the injector hole or the new one will not seat against the old one and it will not let you injector protrude down into the head where its supposed to be.

Also new crush washers for the return line and the banjo bolts that hold it down. Do not overtighten them, they will break.

 

[Agvg]

I have two old tractors that had this problem, both where only used a few hours a year and then for very light use driving a wood splitter and a buzz saw mostly. Now they live a harder life and they are much happier.
Don't think running hours matter, one of them had only 600h on the clock and its 1975 model.

 

[dmark1975]

So the hours shown on the tractor are 5215 but it has been stopped for a long time I suspect as there was few instruments in the tractor when I got it and tacograph was disconnected and numbers are worn/rubbed as shown so it looks like it has been like that for a good long time and was in need of a lot of TLC!!! LOTS

So I'm going to continue on @ task and clean head etc and check valves etc and put it back together. The few minor problems I encountered would seem to answer the issues I was having and glad it is a smaller job than initially (more the money than the challenge) though I still have to split the tractor to do the clutch.
The tractor spent its lift on a cattle farm lifting silage bales so explains the play in clutch and brake pedals. Here are some additional pictures of engine. I suspect they will be useful to someone. The injectors were very dirty and I will replace them all. The picture shows it after been soaked in degreaser for 24hr so most of the grease and dirt had come off it.

I'm going to invest in a engine hoist so I can lift the parts easier and for lifting engine and hydraulic cap off. I also have another engine to attend to on my woodchipper. It is due a overdue service and engine attention...... possible rebuild involved here as head gaskets gone but only a 3 cylinder lister petter engine so will be interesting to see how rods have performed since the last overhaul....

 

[Masseywrench]

You dont need new injectors.
You just need new nozzles for the injectors.
Those injectors are tricky to hold in a vise upside down to remove the nozzle cap so you may need to build a fixture to locate on the 2 holes that the studs pass through to break the caps loose with a wrench on the 2 flats. I would spray some type of lubricant on those fine pitch threads now and let them soak as sometimes they are bad about not wanting to unscrew.

What is the 2 letter code on the injectors? You may need to clean them with a wire brush to find it.

It would not surprise me if that motor did not have 8-10 thousand hours on it.
I recommend taking the head to an engine machine shop that has a chemical vat or dipping process to clean it properly, as a head in that condition will cause the engine to smoke due to the oily carbon buildup in it. That will need chemicals to clean it up.

Great pics and I would love to see the complete tractor as well. Are you going to re-work the dash and install all new gauges in it?
What are your plans for it.

 

[batwing]

I recommend taking the head to an engine machine shop that has a chemical vat or dipping process to clean it properly, as a head in that condition will cause the engine to smoke due to the oily carbon buildup in it. That will need chemicals to clean it up. .[/QUOTE]

I Agree!