yep, but this is blue smoke, and when I am up to speed, still blue smoke coming out of the muffler...and since my exhaust manifold is cracked and needs to be replaced, there is black engine oil running from the cracks down the pipe making a big mess...but I understand what you meant, and will look out for that in the future...safe to say now oil is getting passed somewhere, since it starts consistantly on the first rotation when cold (when hot it may take number of turns) I would venture that the valve guides may be the culprit and not nessessarily the compression.
MF-205 Industrial Oil Pressure Drops When Warm/Hot
- Thread starter jfharper
- Start date
Soundguy
Old Timer
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- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,238
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- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Blue smoke is for sure engine oil.
however the black stuff running out the manifold is liekly diesel slobber.. not crankcase oil.. it's a mix of soot, water and some unburnt fuel..
soundguy
however the black stuff running out the manifold is liekly diesel slobber.. not crankcase oil.. it's a mix of soot, water and some unburnt fuel..
soundguy
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,238
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
it's an indication of alot of idling, no ran cap and.. to determine more you need to run it hard to see if it clears up.
in the end.. idline is cool running and lets more fuel in the oil.. running like this for decades sure could wear the engine prematurely.. etc.
soundguy
in the end.. idline is cool running and lets more fuel in the oil.. running like this for decades sure could wear the engine prematurely.. etc.
soundguy
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,238
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
rain cap
small keyboard...
soundguy
small keyboard...
soundguy
OK, so far so good.
I've got the engine removed and disassembled. I went through the torque converter cuz I've always been curious about it, and it was in good shape. The one-way clutch thing is working properly and all the fins are in good shape.
Camshaft:
I mic'd the camshaft journals and they are just within spec, so I'm going to leave it for now and run some Lucas in there to help add to the oil gap. I figure I can replace the cam later without having to remove the entire engine.
Pistons/Cylinders:
The pistons and rings looked a bit worn, nothing bad, EXCEPT, I found two of the three cylinder liners had cracks up near the flange, so it was a good thing I'm rebuilding now before things got worse in that area.
Head:
The head was in good shape. There was alot of carbon around the valves, but the guides felt nice and tight...I don't have a small-hole micrometer, so I don't know if they are worn or not...but I am going to re-do the entire valve train since it only runs ~$50 for the kit and machine work isn't too bad...but I don't want to do this great deal of work again anytime soon, so I'd rather do it now. Rocker mic'd do spec, so that is OK for now.
Crank:
Yep, in good shape no major damage, but worn main bearing journals passed low spec. The two center ones which were smallest width mic'd the worst wear. Spec for STD was 2.7485" - 2.7490" the two centers measured 2.7446 and the rear (which was the next widest)was 2.7470 and the front which was the widest journal showed the least wear at 2.7475-80. About the same thing for the rod journals, good wear mic'd on the vertical sides (top and bottom) of the jounals. Nice thing is this crank had not been turned yet so I can turn it and two more times after this time. Funny that the main bearings measured just within spec, while all the wear was off the crank. But the bearings had showed grooves, like if a bit of metal or sand ground a groove in them...weird. Crank endplay was just within spec too...but I'm confused about the thrust washers. You can buy STD or oversized at +0.007" so my question is what do I have in there now and if they are needing replacement being just within spec, I'd like to see if I can put the oversize in and put them way back into spec for a long time...but what if I buy the new oversized and that is what is in there now and it still measures just within spec? Anyone know how I can figure this out?
EDIT:
OK, I figured out the deal with the thrust washer. There was number on them and I looked it up and it is the STD thrust washer. So my question now is, if the spec was supposed to be for the allowable endplay 0.002" - 0.015" and mine measured 0.013" loose and 0.015" tight but moveable, measured with a feeler gauge, if I use new STD thrust washers how much will I gain assuming I'm measuring worn thrust washers, or should I just go with oversized at +0.007" and gain as much as I can, probably getting me closer to the 0.002" spec. What do you think?
Oil Pump:
Haven't inspected it yet, but I don't know what I will find if I do...I'm just going to replace it...for $50, I'm not going to chance it. After this rebuild is done, I want to know everything is in good shape...except for the camshaft and gears.
Timing gears:
These showed some wear. The wear was beyond spec quite a bit. Even the front crank gear showed some good wear. I was hoping I could run it a couple years like this, then pull the front timing cover off and replace the timing gears down the road...what do you all think?
Also, when I pulled the rear main rope seal housing off, there was some clear-yellowish silicone stuff that someone had put on the gasket. Should I put some sort of sealant on the new gasket? If so what? RTV blue, or clear, or black, or red? I'm a bit confused about all the sealants out there now. I used to use gask-a-cinch on everything, or form-a-gasket, but now I'm told not use anything except on the head gasket. The head gasket that came off was copper, so I'm guessing the new one will be copper too. I asked the NAPA guy today about it and he said I should use some sort of copper stuff, but I don't remember what he said...I could ask him again.
Lastly, I am replaciing the freeze plugs. I popped the old ones out, 5 @ 1-1/4" and 1 @ 7/8". I was told to clean the hole, add a small amount of silicone and push the new ones in with the largest socket that will fit within the plug. The old plugs were thinner steel and had a larger height, the new ones are much thicker steel and have a shallower hieght. The old one were pushed in about a cm or two beyond flush. What I've read is the plugs should be pushed in to flush and no futher. I'm wondering if I shouldn't go in a couple cm passed flush since this work well over here in California being near the central coast about 30 miles away...the winters are usually in the mid-high twenties at the lowest, one winter was in the teens for a week and I popped a plug then because I had only water in the block/rad, most winters stay in the 30s though. That is night temperature, and only for a few hours in the early morning, till the sun comes up...so I'm not too concerned about it getting too cold...if I keep good coolant in there I should be fine. Let me know if someone has some advice on this plug thing.
Thanks for your help and please feel free to write any notes you may wish to advise, as the more direction I get, the more confidence I have about this...thanks.
I've got the engine removed and disassembled. I went through the torque converter cuz I've always been curious about it, and it was in good shape. The one-way clutch thing is working properly and all the fins are in good shape.
Camshaft:
I mic'd the camshaft journals and they are just within spec, so I'm going to leave it for now and run some Lucas in there to help add to the oil gap. I figure I can replace the cam later without having to remove the entire engine.
Pistons/Cylinders:
The pistons and rings looked a bit worn, nothing bad, EXCEPT, I found two of the three cylinder liners had cracks up near the flange, so it was a good thing I'm rebuilding now before things got worse in that area.
Head:
The head was in good shape. There was alot of carbon around the valves, but the guides felt nice and tight...I don't have a small-hole micrometer, so I don't know if they are worn or not...but I am going to re-do the entire valve train since it only runs ~$50 for the kit and machine work isn't too bad...but I don't want to do this great deal of work again anytime soon, so I'd rather do it now. Rocker mic'd do spec, so that is OK for now.
Crank:
Yep, in good shape no major damage, but worn main bearing journals passed low spec. The two center ones which were smallest width mic'd the worst wear. Spec for STD was 2.7485" - 2.7490" the two centers measured 2.7446 and the rear (which was the next widest)was 2.7470 and the front which was the widest journal showed the least wear at 2.7475-80. About the same thing for the rod journals, good wear mic'd on the vertical sides (top and bottom) of the jounals. Nice thing is this crank had not been turned yet so I can turn it and two more times after this time. Funny that the main bearings measured just within spec, while all the wear was off the crank. But the bearings had showed grooves, like if a bit of metal or sand ground a groove in them...weird. Crank endplay was just within spec too...but I'm confused about the thrust washers. You can buy STD or oversized at +0.007" so my question is what do I have in there now and if they are needing replacement being just within spec, I'd like to see if I can put the oversize in and put them way back into spec for a long time...but what if I buy the new oversized and that is what is in there now and it still measures just within spec? Anyone know how I can figure this out?
EDIT:
OK, I figured out the deal with the thrust washer. There was number on them and I looked it up and it is the STD thrust washer. So my question now is, if the spec was supposed to be for the allowable endplay 0.002" - 0.015" and mine measured 0.013" loose and 0.015" tight but moveable, measured with a feeler gauge, if I use new STD thrust washers how much will I gain assuming I'm measuring worn thrust washers, or should I just go with oversized at +0.007" and gain as much as I can, probably getting me closer to the 0.002" spec. What do you think?
Oil Pump:
Haven't inspected it yet, but I don't know what I will find if I do...I'm just going to replace it...for $50, I'm not going to chance it. After this rebuild is done, I want to know everything is in good shape...except for the camshaft and gears.
Timing gears:
These showed some wear. The wear was beyond spec quite a bit. Even the front crank gear showed some good wear. I was hoping I could run it a couple years like this, then pull the front timing cover off and replace the timing gears down the road...what do you all think?
Also, when I pulled the rear main rope seal housing off, there was some clear-yellowish silicone stuff that someone had put on the gasket. Should I put some sort of sealant on the new gasket? If so what? RTV blue, or clear, or black, or red? I'm a bit confused about all the sealants out there now. I used to use gask-a-cinch on everything, or form-a-gasket, but now I'm told not use anything except on the head gasket. The head gasket that came off was copper, so I'm guessing the new one will be copper too. I asked the NAPA guy today about it and he said I should use some sort of copper stuff, but I don't remember what he said...I could ask him again.
Lastly, I am replaciing the freeze plugs. I popped the old ones out, 5 @ 1-1/4" and 1 @ 7/8". I was told to clean the hole, add a small amount of silicone and push the new ones in with the largest socket that will fit within the plug. The old plugs were thinner steel and had a larger height, the new ones are much thicker steel and have a shallower hieght. The old one were pushed in about a cm or two beyond flush. What I've read is the plugs should be pushed in to flush and no futher. I'm wondering if I shouldn't go in a couple cm passed flush since this work well over here in California being near the central coast about 30 miles away...the winters are usually in the mid-high twenties at the lowest, one winter was in the teens for a week and I popped a plug then because I had only water in the block/rad, most winters stay in the 30s though. That is night temperature, and only for a few hours in the early morning, till the sun comes up...so I'm not too concerned about it getting too cold...if I keep good coolant in there I should be fine. Let me know if someone has some advice on this plug thing.
Thanks for your help and please feel free to write any notes you may wish to advise, as the more direction I get, the more confidence I have about this...thanks.
Last edited:
I have a list of questions I can't figure out...here is one I forgot to ask:
The manual says I'm supposed to use new tab washers when I torque the main bearing caps...where do I find these? I've search with no luck so far.
I'm also supposed to use new self locking nuts where applicable. Do I just buy these anywhere, or am I supposed to match the same type. The only self locking nuts I've seen have some sort of plastic top that locks it, but the ones on the tractor are all metal with some cuts cut in the top and it looks like the metal which was bent in a bit locks the nut. So can I use the new plastic ones, or should I get the old all metal cut ones?
The manual says I'm supposed to use new tab washers when I torque the main bearing caps...where do I find these? I've search with no luck so far.
I'm also supposed to use new self locking nuts where applicable. Do I just buy these anywhere, or am I supposed to match the same type. The only self locking nuts I've seen have some sort of plastic top that locks it, but the ones on the tractor are all metal with some cuts cut in the top and it looks like the metal which was bent in a bit locks the nut. So can I use the new plastic ones, or should I get the old all metal cut ones?