MF165 hydraulic questions

[LDR812]

Hi - I just purchased a 1965 165. It is a basic model. No lever for power shift and just a 3 speed hi/low gear. I was surprised that it doesn’t have live hydraulics - have to let the clutch out in neutral or gear before 3 point lifts. Seem normal for a 165?

 

[LDR812]

Also it gets noisier when the clutch is out - like a rumble or such from the gear box. I guess it’s the pump or something associated

 

[Harry in Ky]

Yes, all that is normal for that tractor. Typical six speed, non multi-power, live PTO, 165. All similar Massey models had straight cut transmission gears, and yes, they are a bit noisy. The hydraulic pump and PTO are both driven off the center disc of a two stage clutch, so that disc must be engaged for either of them to operate (clutch pedal half way up). Might take some getting used to, but that's the way they made it.

It's a simple, dependable tractor, but it has a few drawbacks. For one, it's light on hydraulics. If you need or plan to add anything that requires any hydraulics other than the three point, the options are limited, and not very convenient.

 

[FordnMassey]

Hi,
I have a MF 35 with the same hydraulic pump and clutch set up. Harry in Ky mentions a two stage clutch. It's also possible that like my 35 the clutch is single stage. Check by engaging the PTO and a gear, then raising the clutch pedal. If you can run the PTO with the clutch pedal half down before the tractor moves off, then you have a two stage clutch. A single stage clutch means that when you depress the clutch you lose forward motion, PTO and hydraulic pumping. That's annoying if you plan to fit a loader as I did. If it's a single clutch, you get around these issues by fitting an extra higher capacity hydraulic pump onto the front of the motor if possible, where it never stops pumping.

If you have a single stage clutch, beware that this may also mean that when engaged the PTO is connected to axle motion. This becomes a big deal when you have a high momentum machine on the PTO, such as a brush hog or slasher as we call them. The spinning momentum of the slasher will drive the tractor wheels for around 3 seconds after the clutch is fully depressed. Use the brakes to stop this momentum.

Consider also that the rumbling gearbox ,as opposed to a whine from worn gears, could be a bearing gone bad. I'd also suggest that having rebuilt a Massey pump recently, I think there's not much opportunity for them to be the source of the rumble. Check the magnetic plugs on the drain points at the next gearbox/hydraulic oil change for fragmented case hardening of a bearing surface.

Hope this helps.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Actually, the 165 wasn't offered with a transmission PTO as was the 35. It would be either live PTO with a dual clutch or independent PTO with a split torque clutch.

 

[FordnMassey]

Actually, the 165 wasn't offered with a transmission PTO as was the 35. It would be either live PTO with a dual clutch or independent PTO with a split torque clutch.

Apologies, I was assuming similarity thru the range at that time.

 

[LDR812]

Apologies, I was assuming similarity thru the range at that time.

Thanks to you both. It is a double clutch and I like that for the PTO (makes mowing easier because if you bog can slip the clutch a bit to stop forward motion but keep PTO cutting - unless you really bog it and need to stop PTO also) I'm just used to "live" hydraulics and was a bit surprised this tractor doesnt have it. Our old "58 or 59 Ford 901 had live 3 point. I'm a bit concerned about the rumble. It has new fluid in the transmission so that may not be a good sign.. I'll run it a bit and check the drain plugs. Also need to get a service manual - I saw someplace that it has a internal hydraulic filter and/or screen.
The crankcase is over full but isn't milky and doesn't smell like diesel, and the PS isn't very easy with some hard spots, grabby etc. I'm betting the power steering pump need resealed.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Power steering is totally separate from hydraulics. The only thing in common between the two is they both use oil. Steering oil is contained in a reservoir on the engine mounted pump. Have you checked that yet?

 

[ScipioUSA]

Thanks to you both. It is a double clutch and I like that for the PTO (makes mowing easier because if you bog can slip the clutch a bit to stop forward motion but keep PTO cutting - unless you really bog it and need to stop PTO also) I'm just used to "live" hydraulics and was a bit surprised this tractor doesnt have it. Our old "58 or 59 Ford 901 had live 3 point. I'm a bit concerned about the rumble. It has new fluid in the transmission so that may not be a good sign.. I'll run it a bit and check the drain plugs. Also need to get a service manual - I saw someplace that it has a internal hydraulic filter and/or screen.
The crankcase is over full but isn't milky and doesn't smell like diesel, and the PS isn't very easy with some hard spots, grabby etc. I'm betting the power steering pump need resealed.

If you have a two stage clutch, your hydraulic pump is driven off the same stage as the PTO. So if you press your clutch part way down, you should stop the tractor motion but still have PTO and hydraulic/three point power.

 

[LDR812]

Power steering is totally separate from hydraulics. The only thing in common between the two is they both use oil. Steering oil is contained in a reservoir on the engine mounted pump. Have you checked that yet?

Yes, I was just pondering the other issues I have found with the "new to me" 165. Maybe not right forum for engine questions.. but thanks for the response. I think the PS pump is missing the dip stick. On the pump housing there is a piece og what appears to be CPVC (3/8 or maybe 1/2 with a cap glued to it. When dirty looked like it might of been OEM. When Idorve the tractor looking at it the PS was ok. When I got it home and mowed with it for about 45 minutes the PS really started getting tough - needing a lot of force on the wheel at differernt times. Like maybe the pump was surging / slipping or something. Engine crank case was over full when I looked at it, and I think after running it had a bit more in it but had seemed to level off. This next weekend is a oil change / fuel filter maintenance before any more running. I may pull a gear box plug too and check for metal