Might plant white clover.

[N80]

I've read several white papers regarding white clover for cattle use. It comes highly recommended and the risk of bloat primarily comes from the animals consuming only clover and the recommendation is for it to be planted with another grass with which it can co-exist. And apparently given proper car it will co-exist well with a number of grasses including fescue which is popular for hay and grazing here in the south east.

Virtually any fast growing green plant eaten as the sole source of nutrition can cause problems for cows. This is a common cause of down cows in the spring around here and problem results from hypo-magnesemia. I've seen it happen with fescue (and I'm not talking about the fungal poisoning associated with fescue in some regions.) Of course horses can founder from overeating as well.

I'm planting for deer so not much worry there.

 

[DocHeb]

One thing to keep in mind: when I was an Ag student at Louisiana Tech, one of our professors was doing some research on bloating. One of his experiments included white Dutch clover vs red clover. We would collect a bushel basket of each, run it through a grinder and squeeze out the juice, Then we would force feed the juice via worming syringe into 2 steers and 2 wethers (castrated sheep). We did the red clover first and noticed no ill effects whatsoever. Four hours later, we did the same thing with the white Dutch clover. By the time we injected the 4th animal, the first one was bloated so bad, we couldn't get a rubber hose down it's throat to stop the bloat. In short, all 4 died within 20 minutes. The worst part was that us 2 students and the prof had to butcher all 4 critters right then. To this day, I can't look at white Dutch clover without cringing.

So you force fed some cows something they might not normally eat and they died? I hope your professor devised some portions of the experiment that you are leaving out.

From above, you either proved that a bushel of red clover kills a cow in 4 hours and 20 minutes, a bushel of white clover kills a cow in 20 minutes, or a combination of red and white clover kills cows (while nothing may happen if they are force fed the clovers individually.)

 

[N80]

It also sounds like the cows were given extract from the plant and it was administered in such a way as to bypass the mouth and teeth. I'm no vet but when a human eats, the chewing and salivary enzymes begin to break down proteins and carbohydrates before the food is even swollowed. This may not be true of cows, but this digestive step was skipped in the experiment.

And, I don't think it was ever a mystery that cows that eat just clover can bloat.

Remember, even water is a poison when administered in sufficient quantity.

 

[pappy19]

No problem. Forget I mentioned it.

 

[N80]

No problem. Forget I mentioned it.

Come on now. Don't take things the wrong way. When researching the white clover I noticed several times that bloat was mentioned as a problem for cows.

However, my plans are for food plots for deer and I've seen no reference regarding deer or even horses getting the bloat (different types of stomachs).

And I did not intend to discredit your experiment, its just my nature to pick apart 'clinical' studies in regard to their practical application. No offense intended and I found it interesting.....which is why I continued to discuss your experience.

I do have a horse that is prone to founder, affectionately named Fatty Patty and I'd certainly keep her out of it. Not that I'd miss her if she ate herself to death but I'd hate to see my clover crop ruined.

And, my B-I-L did turn his cows out onto my place during the drought last summer to graze on whatever they could find. But I suspect if there was another drought the clover would get wiped out before any cows had a chance to bloat on it.

Besides, with my green thumb I'd consider it a victory if I were able to grow enough to bloat a cow!

 

[DocHeb]

No problem. Forget I mentioned it.

Yeah - sorry, I did sound a bit harsh. I was trying to write the post quickly as my wife was calling me to go. I didn't do the final polish/edit to tone it down.

I do get frustrated by things that are assumed to be cause and effect when the science really doesn't support it.

 

[N80]

I planted most of my clover yesterday. I'd already plowed the plots with a two bottom plow and disked them several times.

I added 0-14-14 fertilizer at about 250 pounds per acre which is probably not as much as it should be but as much as I could afford, and then disked it lightly.

Spreading the clover a problem. It is super tiny and the amount is tiny too, like 5 pounds per acre. I'm planting pure clover so nothing to mix it with. I used one of those hand-held spreaders. You can hardly see it come out, you can only barely see how large your coverage is, and you can't hear it land. A tractor spreader, at least for my small plots would probably not be effective at all. I don't think you'd ever get it set right. I fiddled with the hand held spreader and got it set as best I could and with each plot it ran out at the end, but I don't know what the coverage will look like. There may be gaps. There may be overlap. Who knows.

I did not harrow at all. It can only tolerate about 1/4 inch of coverage and my plots were disked up into a somewhat fluffy sandy stuff and I think even my homemade harrow (chainlink fence wrapped around a 6' 6x6) would have pulled too much soil on top of it.

And, it is supposed to be down in the 20's tonight and tomorrow night and there is a fair amount of moisture in the soil so I'm hoping the frost will provide the needed soil contact. We shall see. Wish me luck!

 

[whistlepig]

I'm planting my first food plot this spring. White Clover seems to be the best choice for deer food plots from what I have read. Ladino Clover is a good choice but Patriot Clover sounds better if I can find it local. Any advice would be welcome.

 

[N80]

Patriot and Durana are the latest two white clovers. I understand that both will last several years with Durana probably lasting longer. Patriot is said to give a better first season growth. Some folks do a 50/50 mix. I could only get Durana, so that's what I planted.

 

[EddieWalker]

Post pictures. I'm curious to see how it does. I'm even more curious about planting at this time of the year, but understand that seeds just remain dormant until conditions are right for them. I did the same with grass sead late in the year with the hope that they will be ready to go come this spring and the ground tempatures are right for them.

Eddie