Buying Advice Need a simple run-down on HST, Shuttle vs. Gear
- Thread starter Jaybird62
- Start date
kcflhrc
Veteran Member
Hydrostat typically runs about $1k more. Benefits of HS are ease of use, simple pedals for forward and reverse. Versus stopping and shifting or moving a lever with the shuttle. I drove a shuttle and HS LS when shopping, I quickly realized the HS was best for me and my wife to use. Ended up with the HS John Deere, couldn't be happier. You will get all kinds of opinions on what's best, you should really drive them both and decide for yourself.
Look here
http://www.tractor.com/features/how-to-choose-a-transmission-for-your-tractor-1598.html
Look here
http://www.tractor.com/features/how-to-choose-a-transmission-for-your-tractor-1598.html
k0ua
Epic Contributor
HST Pro: Ease of use, anyone can operate it. Safer when working around people on the ground, as you have more precise control. Ability to go any speed, infinite control of ground speed independent of throttle setting. Ability to quickly change direction, no clutching, does not wear out your left leg, ideal for loader work., Ability to change speed when tractor is loading down for instance when brush hogging, and cutter is lugging the tractor, just let up on the hydro pedal until the engine can catch up. I would go as far to say more reliable, No clutch to wear out. Others will differ with this, but I see more clutch failures on here than hydrostat failures. Proven technology, over 60 year track record, used extensively in bulldozers and other heavy machinery.
Cons of Hydro: Hydro "eats" power from engine. In other words, there is some loss, that loss equates to heat production. That is why hydro machines have a cooler section in the radiator, like an automatic transmission in a car. Hydro machines "whine", make a unique noise while operating. It seems the smaller machines make more noise than the larger ones. I can't hear mine over the diesel "cackle". Hydro machines have an extra filter to change, so slightly higher maint. costs.
Straight gear machines (crash boxes). very limited speed ranges, You are locked into fixed speed steps. The more gears you have the smaller these steps are, but they are still steps.. In the low gear count machines, you have 2 actual speeds, too fast and too slow
.. Plus side of gear machines is they deliver almost all of the power that goes into the transmission out of the transmission. Downside is they have a clutch. If you know what you are doing a clutch can last a very long time. If you don't know what you are doing, clutches can last a very short time. If you are old, clutches hurt. If you are young, and have good left knee joints, clutches are fine. Hydro shuttle gear machines allow directional changes without clutching, this is a good thing, from a human perspective, but are actually more complicated than pure hydro machines. They work well though. Bottom line if what you do, involves going in straight lines forward, and you want maximum power to the ground,(example plowing/row crop) then get a gear machine, especially if you left leg is in good shape. If what you do is mostly loader/fork/grapple work then you will profit from a hydrostatic machine, especially if your left leg is not in the best of shape. Hydro machines cost about $1000 more to purchase, and are worth about $1000 more when you trade them in. I have owned 2 gear, and 3 hydro machines, and got a lot of good use out of all of them, but it is hydro for me from now on.
Cons of Hydro: Hydro "eats" power from engine. In other words, there is some loss, that loss equates to heat production. That is why hydro machines have a cooler section in the radiator, like an automatic transmission in a car. Hydro machines "whine", make a unique noise while operating. It seems the smaller machines make more noise than the larger ones. I can't hear mine over the diesel "cackle". Hydro machines have an extra filter to change, so slightly higher maint. costs.
Straight gear machines (crash boxes). very limited speed ranges, You are locked into fixed speed steps. The more gears you have the smaller these steps are, but they are still steps.. In the low gear count machines, you have 2 actual speeds, too fast and too slow
.. Plus side of gear machines is they deliver almost all of the power that goes into the transmission out of the transmission. Downside is they have a clutch. If you know what you are doing a clutch can last a very long time. If you don't know what you are doing, clutches can last a very short time. If you are old, clutches hurt. If you are young, and have good left knee joints, clutches are fine. Hydro shuttle gear machines allow directional changes without clutching, this is a good thing, from a human perspective, but are actually more complicated than pure hydro machines. They work well though. Bottom line if what you do, involves going in straight lines forward, and you want maximum power to the ground,(example plowing/row crop) then get a gear machine, especially if you left leg is in good shape. If what you do is mostly loader/fork/grapple work then you will profit from a hydrostatic machine, especially if your left leg is not in the best of shape. Hydro machines cost about $1000 more to purchase, and are worth about $1000 more when you trade them in. I have owned 2 gear, and 3 hydro machines, and got a lot of good use out of all of them, but it is hydro for me from now on.
Wakey
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,164
- Location
- Madison Georgia
- Tractor
- John Deere Z915B Zero Turn 54 Deck
My deceased CK20 was HST and I really liked it.
Our new DK40 is geared mostly because I was worried we would have a similar power to weight ratio as with the CK20. Dragging the jumping ring daily forced the change. I don't have any problems finding the right gear with the DK40.
The geared tractors have a ton more break-away power over the HST.
When spring comes I'll see if I can become as efficient using the loader as I was with the HST.
Our new DK40 is geared mostly because I was worried we would have a similar power to weight ratio as with the CK20. Dragging the jumping ring daily forced the change. I don't have any problems finding the right gear with the DK40.
The geared tractors have a ton more break-away power over the HST.
When spring comes I'll see if I can become as efficient using the loader as I was with the HST.
the old grind
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2012
- Messages
- 5,072
- Location
- Mid-Michigan
- Tractor
- NH T-1520 HST, NH TC33DA HST, Case DX26 HST, .Terramite T5C, . NH L785
I'll go out on a limb here and stick up for rocker pedals on HSTs. I've had motorcycles with running boards and rocker shifters. While I've heard complaints that a foot doesn't cover both pedals (to 'rock') I don't see where they ever should. Having lost a disc in my back (L-5) and btw with no cartilage in my right knee I have to contort awkwardly to back up for any distance, and there'd be no clutching if I needed to.
With the reverse pedal easier to distinguish when twisted to my right I can reach it more easily. This matters quite a bit on slopes when also stomping the diff lock and trying to keep my butt on the 'Simon says' safety system (assortment of switches) and not be shut down for moving a smidge. (like last Friday when I got 'ditched') No looking back over my left shoulder to spot right from left or fumbling with a foot that won't reach.
S-x-s pedals also seem to rest higher off the op platform, but this may be a bad observation because I shied from the type when shopping. IIRC the rocker style linkages are typically simpler, and most complaints I've noticed here are with adjusting or synchronizing s-x-s types. (YMMV big on this aspect)
I would suggest that when shopping and trying out any tractor don't just run a few circles and try out gear ranges. Do several back & forth moves as though working the FEL or backing/steering for a fair distance, say to work a back blade in reverse. You'd want to consider all ergo features in light of your tasks, and how thing can be reached/controlled when seated otherwise than car-like and facing forward. IMO, ease of entry/exit is second only to the o'all fit.
As for the power 'loss' of HST, lets remember that if you can break traction in a particular range you won't miss it. It seems that with pallet forks or using the tractor as a crane (moving shop machines) the advantage of HST's 'creep' & control is most pronounced. I've had 1 of four tractors with gear/clutch and don't miss it one bit. 'Double clutching' the JD to shift 'on the fly' was explained in the manual. but not something I ever accomplished.
I wish every shopper had a pal(s) who would let them try out their various versions for 1/2 an hour or so vs a quick test drive at the dealer. Subtracting your age from 70 might tell you how many minutes before you body tells you the fit isn't right. Try 'em all but don't drive 'em like cars when doing so. Big +1on what K0UA says about youngsters & beginners. A HST pedal works like a dead man in a pinch. YouTube crashes are often when a newb panics and reaches for the brake without de-clutching too, & not just on tractors. I keep forgetting that my tractors even have brakes. (getting too old & slow to need 'em? :confused3
With the reverse pedal easier to distinguish when twisted to my right I can reach it more easily. This matters quite a bit on slopes when also stomping the diff lock and trying to keep my butt on the 'Simon says' safety system (assortment of switches) and not be shut down for moving a smidge. (like last Friday when I got 'ditched') No looking back over my left shoulder to spot right from left or fumbling with a foot that won't reach.
S-x-s pedals also seem to rest higher off the op platform, but this may be a bad observation because I shied from the type when shopping. IIRC the rocker style linkages are typically simpler, and most complaints I've noticed here are with adjusting or synchronizing s-x-s types. (YMMV big on this aspect)
I would suggest that when shopping and trying out any tractor don't just run a few circles and try out gear ranges. Do several back & forth moves as though working the FEL or backing/steering for a fair distance, say to work a back blade in reverse. You'd want to consider all ergo features in light of your tasks, and how thing can be reached/controlled when seated otherwise than car-like and facing forward. IMO, ease of entry/exit is second only to the o'all fit.
As for the power 'loss' of HST, lets remember that if you can break traction in a particular range you won't miss it. It seems that with pallet forks or using the tractor as a crane (moving shop machines) the advantage of HST's 'creep' & control is most pronounced. I've had 1 of four tractors with gear/clutch and don't miss it one bit. 'Double clutching' the JD to shift 'on the fly' was explained in the manual. but not something I ever accomplished.
I wish every shopper had a pal(s) who would let them try out their various versions for 1/2 an hour or so vs a quick test drive at the dealer. Subtracting your age from 70 might tell you how many minutes before you body tells you the fit isn't right.
Try 'em all but don't drive 'em like cars when doing so. Big +1on what K0UA says about youngsters & beginners. A HST pedal works like a dead man in a pinch. YouTube crashes are often when a newb panics and reaches for the brake without de-clutching too, & not just on tractors. I keep forgetting that my tractors even have brakes. (getting too old & slow to need 'em? :confused3
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,238
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
oh boy.. gear vs hydro.. here we go!
kcflhrc
Veteran Member
kevin37b
Veteran Member
Hydrostat all the way . They do not eat power if used correctly .