Tractor Sizing New guy needs help sizing a tractor please

[Kyle241]

Kyle241...you mentioned the HST is good for loader work. What about doing loader work makes a HST nice? I'm not sure I understand why the transmission plays an important part? I can see where transmission consideration would make sense for some applications such as something like plowing. I could see where the ability to set your tractor to go at a very slow crawl and still have power to the ground would be important. But I can't make the connection with a loader? Not questioning or arguing, I'm just ignorant.

Jenkinsph...you mention it's all about the seat position? Can you elaborate, do you mean just comfort wise with relation to the controls? Or are you talking about function, like not being able to see what you are doing, or it prevents the backhoe from full swings?

Thanks again guys

DeWrecking_Crew, the HST is nicer when doing loader work because of all the back and forth movement. No gear changing necessary and your leg will get tired if you are doing a lot of earth, gravel moving, etc. I agree for tillage work, gear tends to be the better solution however HST works decently.

I can also respond to your question to Jenkinsph concerning the Kubota commercial TLB's. Their seat positions are such that it's one seat, can easily swivel facing forward or backwards and the deck is open (at least on the L45 and M59, not sure about the B26). These commercial TLB's are great machines (Deere used to make the 110) and definitely are beefier but come at a price. There is a premium to all the bells and whistles they have along with the greater breakout force, etc. I used to have a Kubota B20 (predecessor of the B21/B26) and it was a little tank at only 20hp. It was however not the best for PTO work (IMHO) so while I looked hard at upgrading to the L45, I chose an MX5100 with BH that I feel better suits the additional tillage work I am now doing. Still love the L45 but it was also $6-7k more in price.

Bottom line is you should list your dealers, visit each, talk to the salespeople and service. Take a long look at models as there are a lot out there. Determine what your top requirements are, e.g. mowing, bush-hogging, loader work, BH work, etc. It will help you decide.

 

[DeWrecking Crew]

Thanks again for the responses. It seems everybody is putting emphasis on finding a good dealer. Which has brought up a couple of questions. Are these tractor dealers not like car dealers? If I bought a John Deere, can't I take it to any JD dealer for service or is that not how it works? Why is the dealer being close by a necessity? On that note, I have two dealers fairly close by (within 30 miles), a Kubota dealer who looks like it is strictly Kubota for tractors and another dealer who offers several brands...Mahindra, Zetor, and MF. There is also a JD dealer about 50 miles away. When you talk about being close by, is this close by, or do you mean that you don't want one that is several hundred miles away, which I can understand?

I've started to look at the dealer's websites that are close by and have noticed that they sale used tractors as well (at a considerable savings). I know this is probably a very ignorant question, but how many hours is considered a lot of hours on a tractor. If you told me a car has 100,000 miles on it, I'd pretty much know where I stand with that car. But when you tell me the tractor only has 2000 hours on it, I have no idea if that is good or bad. What is the equivalent of 100,000 miles in tractor world? And what would be the equivalent of "all highway miles" in tractor world, if it was just used as a shredder would that be considered light work?

 

[KYDan]

A closer dealer is a plus for myriad reasons. 1st if you buy the tractor from him he will answer your questions, provide useful suggestion, etc. if he is a good dealer. However, he is a businessman and he isn't going out of his way if you didn't buy it from him. Also, if you have to have him pick it up he will be more inclined to do it at a reduced or possibly no cost if under warranty if something requires this. If you didn't buy it from him mostly likely your service will be on a roundtuit basis. One of my very good friends is a Kubtota and a John Deere dealer, I didn't buy either one of my tractors from him due to distance. I bought both of them from a dealer 10 miles from my home.

You can find used tractors with 2,000 hours that are in great shape if they have been maintained properly and conversely one with 500 hours that may have issues due to improper maintenance and care. Tractors are tough and built to be used hard, but not doing basic service and maintenance at the prescribed intervals can cause real issues later on. I have had tractors with 4,000 + hours that were still in good shape, ran fine, and still had a lot of life. I have also seen ragged out ones with only 1500 hours. Don't let shiny paint fool you on a used tractor they may not be as mechanically sound as some with faded paint. However, if a tractor is sharp looking it is generally a sign that the former owner took good care of it.

How the used tractor is priced is usually a good indicator of its condition. I sold my 15 year old Kubota L2900 for half the original purchase price. I took good care of it (I did use it hard) and stored it indoors. It had 1600 hours on it and looked almost new.

 

[Samandothers]

I have a Kubota L4240 HST with front end loader and backhoe. I needed the tractor for bush hog, grapple and other reasons than backhoe. However, I wanted the backhoe for digging out trees, culverts, leveling ground and footings for building. The back hoe attachment has served me well and yes to move it I have to get off back hoe and move to drivers seat.The implement is easy to add and remove. I did not need the backhoe for enough work to feel like I should purchase the backhoe with single seat.

The HST is great when doing loader work. It is handy in tight places in woods. I is also hand for using the grapple and bushhoging near edge of woods.

If you think you'd add a grapple later on you may want to look at getting the third function valve and having the hydraulic port added to the loader. Some will use rear remotes for grapples, but I like having the grapple control on the loader control lever.

 

[k0ua]

Having owned 2 gear tractors and 2 Hydrostat tractors over a period of 20+ years I can help a little here. For Loader work the Hydro cannot be beat, the level of control is just so much more especially for a new person, but even for a veteran it is just so much easy to maintain your level when grading with the bucket, and is so much safer when working with people near the tractor as in setting stones, and is safer when working close to buildings. Not to mention the fact your left leg will thank you at the end of the day. A hydro has infinite speed adjustment from 0 to what ever the top speed is in a particular range and throttle setting. So say you need to go .0001234 MPH when setting a rock on top of another with your pallet forks with a person in front of the tractor trying to guide you, well with a hydro you can go .0001234 MPH, but with a gear tractor, you are trying to feather the clutch and the throttle to hit the approximate speed to get the job done..Not saying you cannot do it, it is just a lot harder. Also when you hop on your shiny new XYZ (brand) hydro equipped tractor, you and your wife and your son and your dog are going to be able to operate it almost immediately, without a learning curve, (or a much reduced one). So yes I am a big hydro proponent to the point of being obnoxious. But I have owned and operated both for many years, and since I mostly do loader work I will never own anything else. There are many upsides to a hydro tractor, now like everything else in life there has got to be some downsides.
1: cost.. hydro's cost more. (recouped in resale value)
2: Hydro's "eat power" yep 5 to 10 percent power lost in the hydro.
3: Hydro's make more heat (see lost power above) Yep they have extra radiators to dissipate this heat. Power loss has to go somewhere.
4: Hydro's make a whining sound especially when loaded heavily . Yes it is true. It sounds a lot like a "bobcat skid loader working"
5: Hydro's are so easy to operate that everyone will want to "borrow" your tractor. Yeah you cannot say that they will never figure out the gear system and therefore cannot borrow your tractor.. anyone can operate the hydro with about 2 minutes of instruction.

All the negative things people say about hydro is all true.

The positives so far outweigh the negative it is not even worth mentioning. In my opinion.

I have a Kubota, but if I were you, I would look hard at a Kioti DK40SE HST or a Kubota MX5100HST . The Kioti is a little more upscale, the Kubota more standard tractor but more horsepower and a lot of bang for the buck. Good luck in whatever you buy:thumbsup:

James K0UA

 

[DeWrecking Crew]

Thanks guys, lots of useful info. I think I'm beginning to understand a little more...most of what we have been talking about and the differences is about ease of operation and use. In other words the HST is nice because it is easier and faster to operate the machine. The TLBs are nice because the seat is more convenient to move the machine around. Finding a close dealer is nice because it will make working with them easier and more pleasant, ect, ect...Is there anything that would be a catostraphic failure with a purchase? In other words, when I look at all these adds, some of them say "live independant pto" which leads me to believe that some tractors would not have this option? I'm guessing for most implements you want a "live" pto eventhough I'm not sure what the **** that actually means, but in my mind, something is telling me I want that. I also see lots of ads talking about remotes, which I also assume has to do with running the implements? With you guys knowing what my plans are with the tractor, do I need a live pto and do I need remotes, if so, how many remotes do I need?

I will eventually get around to actually going to the dealers and poking around and asking questions. But I'd like to have a little knowledge beforehand so that I don't get taken for a ride and come home with a $60K rig when a $30K rig would have been all I would ever need or want. I fear if I go in there with these basic questions they will smell the blood in the water. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[IndyIan]

Just watch buying a used tractor with a backhoe. It needs to have the proper subframe on the tractor to mount the hoe on. A decent size hoe just on a 3 pt hitch on a 40-50hp tractor is a hoe waiting to break the toplink off. The sales guys may not agree but I think most guys here do.
I passed on a Kubota L2950 with a 3pth hoe because it looked like it had been used commercially and everything was pretty loose.

If you have no Kioti dealer nearby I'd second the MX5100 suggestion, probably to get a used one, you won't find one with the hoe but maybe a dealer will work with you on not paying MSRP for one if your buying a tractor from him.

If you do have a Kioti dealer nearby, price one out, for loader work and most things you are doing, I think a DK40\45\50 will keep up with a MX5100.
The Kioti's also have many of the kubota options, standard, although a MX5100 isn't a basic model either.

Also you might want to get a box blade for leveling large areas. I suspect it might be as fast as breaking dirt up with a backhoe and then moving it with the loader, unless you get something like the M59. I suspect an M59 is like owning a F550, very good at its intended purpose but not so handy for a variety of tasks.

 

[k0ua]

This is a pretty simple, easy to understand explaination of the types of PTO's

TractorData.com - Power Take-Off


James K0UA

 

[DeWrecking Crew]

Thanks for the link k0ua, from reading that, a transmission controlled pto sounds like a bad idea. Seems like it would put a lot of stress on the tractor's drive train. I would prefer to have an independant, but I'm guessing that's when the dollar signs start adding up?

Indy...I looked up Kioti, the closest dealer is 99 miles, is that too far or would that be considered average in tractor world?

With every post I learn something new, Indy you just posted to make sure the tractor has the proper sub-frame for a backhoe? So outside of asking the dealer, how do I figure out if a tractor has the proper subframe? And on top of that, what the **** is a subframe? Are these secondary frames that fit over the top of the primary frame?

Also, when you say

A decent size hoe just on a 3 pt hitch on a 40-50hp tractor is a hoe waiting to break the toplink off.

By toplink do you mean the top arm of the 3-point hitch?

 

[k0ua]

If you buy a HST equipped tractor it will probably have an Independant PTO

As you change directions and slow and stop the movement of the tractor the PTO and your attachment keep on running. Some are mechanical engagement (clutch) and some are electrical/hydraulic.

A subframe for a backhoe is heavy duty metal pieces bolted on to the frame of the tractor, and the backhoe fastens onto the rigid subframe not carried on the 3 point hitch of the tractor.

James K0UA