New tractor - any tier 4 issues (DEF, etc)?

[jeff9366]

RE: New Kubota L3560/Tier 4

Yesterday, at 55 hours, warning light to burn soot off DPF came on. I parked, per instructions, and pushed DPF clean button. Engine revved to 2,200 RPM and sixteen minutes later, returned to normal. Light on instrument panel announced DPF cycle completed.

Back to work.

NO UREA.

 

[BigMike50]

theres been problems with dpf for years now. its new technology and is not mastered. I already had a 2000 dollar repair on my 2011 cummins ram because the regen and egr failed. My buddy owns a heavy haulage company and orders his peterbilts with no motor and trans. and has preemission cat motors installed. Called glider kits. This is done because of all the failures on the dpf bullcrap. So good luck with it in the long run. Until they figure this crap out and get it to function properly

 

[super55]

I did a fair amount of research on these Tier IV emissions and this is what I have gathered for the most part. There is a lot of claims out there that tractors that are Tier IV are getting better fuel economy. After that the benefits stop for the most part.

In order to meet emission standards they are running with DPF filters and DEF fluid. The DPF filters aren't so much of an issue with the larger tractors except for creating excessive heat but are at least ran long enough typically for the regeneration to work. A lot of CUTS just simply are worked long enough or hard enough to have the recirculation system to work. I believe JD quotes that the Exhaust emission syst. is good for 5k hours before needing factory service but don't quote me on that.

DEF is a different story. I can forsee this being an issue with tractor owners especially in northern climates eventually. DEF freezes at 12 deg. the system is supposed to pump all the lines clean of fluid and as the engine warms up it is supposed to melt the DEF for use.

I believe the Tier emission standards to be a good thing. In the past 10 years a lot of manufactures have been able to double hp and torque with smaller engines through technology at least with Tier 1 thru Tier 3. From when the emission standards came into effect the initial pollution output of diesel engines was 500 ppm. Up to Tier 3 engine redesign and mainly fuel refinement has got that down to about 40 ppm. Now tier 4 further cuts it down to 15 ppm. Tier 4 is nominal decrease in pollution with a whole bunch of technology to make it happen.

My guess is that it will just be a matter of time before manufacturers make DPF and DEF delete kits for this tractors just as they have for pickups.

The EPA just put out new emission standards for woodstoves for 2015 and again in 2019. They are claiming that if you want to sell your house your woodstove will have to meet EPA emission standards or you will have to remove it. Sometimes makes you wonder how much of a democratic country we actually live in.

 

[super55]

DeereMann,

It amazes me sometimes the logic behind the restrictions set up by our EPA and how non-conforming or willing to negotiate they are on things. They don't care about cost increase or added repairs because it just gets passed to the consumer i.e. you and me.

The diesel engine manufacturers over the past 15 years have made remarkable advances. A Powerstroke today puts out twice the HP and torque than the 7.3 did back in the early 2000's yet is a smaller motor. You would think that todays trucks would be getting twice the fuel mileage but there is so much back pressure in the system to meet emission standards these motors are literally fighting against themselves and it sucks up the fuel economy.

I always thought fuel economy should have played into emission standards. I'm just a simpleton but the less fuel I burn the less polluting I'm doing but I guess the Fed gov. knows better. But think about it. If fuel economy did play into emissions than everybody in R&D would be trying like mad to get every mile possible out of a gallon of diesel instead of putting DPF and DEF on their trucks. It would be a win win for everyone except for maybe the oil companies.

 

[tcartwri]

DEF is a different story. I can forsee this being an issue with tractor owners especially in northern climates eventually. DEF freezes at 12 deg. the system is supposed to pump all the lines clean of fluid and as the engine warms up it is supposed to melt the DEF for use.

DEF does not freeze at 12 deg F. That is the temperature it starts to change state much like when you stick Vodka in the freezer. I have never seen frozen DEF even at temps below -10 F.

 

[TSO]

DEF does not freeze at 12 deg F. That is the temperature it starts to change state much like when you stick Vodka in the freezer. I have never seen frozen DEF even at temps below -10 F.

That's odd ... I've always kept Vodka in a Freezer ... never had it change to anything other than Vodka! Drinks with added sugars (ie Rum) I've seen some changing. But not vodka. What kind of Vodka are you drinking?

 

[Jerry/MT]

Super 55 said, "I believe the Tier emission standards to be a good thing. In the past 10 years a lot of manufactures have been able to double hp and torque with smaller engines through technology at least with Tier 1 thru Tier 3."

Are you trying to say that for the same compression ratio, engine displacement and turbo boost(if applicable), horspower and torque have been doubled? Can you please give examples!

 

[tcartwri]

That's odd ... I've always kept Vodka in a Freezer ... never had it change to anything other than Vodka! Drinks with added sugars (ie Rum) I've seen some changing. But not vodka. What kind of Vodka are you drinking?

Maybe I'm thinking of Gin... I know one of them gets syrupy.

 

[tcartwri]

Supper 55 said, "I believe the Tier emission standards to be a good thing. In the past 10 years a lot of manufactures have been able to double hp and torque with smaller engines through technology at least with Tier 1 thru Tier 3."

Are you trying to say that for the same compression ratio, engine displacement and turbo boost(if applicable), horspower and torque have been doubled? Can you please give examples!

VW tdi's can almost double their output with a computer tune and some exhaust work. They will not be emission compliant though.

 

[DeereMann]

DeereMann,

It amazes me sometimes the logic behind the restrictions set up by our EPA and how non-conforming or willing to negotiate they are on things. They don't care about cost increase or added repairs because it just gets passed to the consumer i.e. you and me.

I always thought fuel economy should have played into emission standards. I'm just a simpleton but the less fuel I burn the less polluting I'm doing but I guess the Fed gov. knows better. But think about it. If fuel economy did play into emissions than everybody in R&D would be trying like mad to get every mile possible out of a gallon of diesel instead of putting DPF and DEF on their trucks. It would be a win win for everyone except for maybe the oil companies.

The world of politics gets more distressing the more one is exposed to it. But one has no choice but to try & fight, otherwise we will all be living in thatch huts again.

What we found is that Congress authored, and updated, the U.S. Clean Air Act that REQUIRES the EPA to act. The EPA has no choice - it is the congress that causes EPA to do bizarre things. That, and Federal Judge interpretations of congress' intent. EPA told EMA as much.

The Clean Air Act completely ignored fuel consumption, CO2 output, and cost/benefit (at first, since revised). Then a Federal Judge compelled EPA to act regardless of cost/benefit.

So the real culprit here is our elected representatives, not EPA. EPA is congress' whipping post. And unless you got millions of dollars to buy off congress, we're stuck with it. Look how long it has taken to turn the tide against the agriprocessor ethanol fuel lobbies!!

Thanks for the rant fodder! :hissyfit: