New tractor - any tier 4 issues (DEF, etc)?

[Jay4200]

The EPA just put out new emission standards for woodstoves for 2015 and again in 2019. They are claiming that if you want to sell your house your woodstove will have to meet EPA emission standards or you will have to remove it. Sometimes makes you wonder how much of a democratic country we actually live in.

I still don't understand why anybody follows EPA regulations. The whole organization is completely illegal - their regulations are simply a wish list with no legal enforcement possible.

Incidentally, I verified that there is no DEF in at least the Kubota CUTs, so the pee issue is moot. I also verified that the new Tier 4 compliant machines are approximately $4000 higher than the comparable previous year Tier 3 models. That's a deal-breaker.

Awful lot of money for a fancy muffler, just because some fly-by-night organization whose very existence is a Constitutional violation insists on it. As much as I want a cab, I'm sticking with my 2600 hour POS L4200 for now.

 

[Paystar]

DEF does not freeze at 12 deg F. That is the temperature it starts to change state much like when you stick Vodka in the freezer. I have never seen frozen DEF even at temps below -10 F.

My def froze while driving and the heater was still working. (2013 Western Star/DD15 Detroit) Had to go inside dealer to thaw out. Many trucks in that day because the heating systems for the def couldn't keep up.

 

[TimberXX]

A few people brought up CUTs gong to gas engines. How about air cooled diesels. These air cooled engines have been tier 4 since 2010. Kohler makes them to 25 hp.

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[Camastown]

I have had my branson 4520r since February of 2014 and am very happy with it. It does not use the DEF instead uses a fancy muffler. I love the fact I no longer have to smell diesel exhaust, there is almost no smell and no black soot

 

[PapeCAT]

I still don't understand why anybody follows EPA regulations. The whole organization is completely illegal - their regulations are simply a wish list with no legal enforcement possible.

Tell that to VW and their TDI! My wife bought her new 2012 TDI Jetta and we're still waiting to see what the end decision will be. Rumor has it the vehicles will be removed back to the EU!

I agree though. Homeowner tractors need to have a balance of robust light duty longevity vs. an emissions system that will only survive when running at 100% duty cycle at max RPM and load.

 

[buickanddeere]

A few people brought up CUTs gong to gas engines. How about air cooled diesels. These air cooled engines have been tier 4 since 2010. Kohler makes them to 25 hp.

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Kubota has a line of bolt in spark ignition engines .To bolt directly in place of a Tier IV diesel.

 

[buickanddeere]

Regulations under 50HP are rather lax compared to 50+ HP.

Tier 4 Emission Standards—Engines up to 560 kW, g/kWh (g/bhp-hr)
Engine Power Year CO NMHC NMHC+NOx NOx PM
kW < 8
(hp < 11) 2008 8.0 (6.0) - 7.5 (5.6) - 0.4a (0.3)
8 ≤ kW < 19
(11 ≤ hp < 25) 2008 6.6 (4.9) - 7.5 (5.6) - 0.4 (0.3)
19 ≤ kW < 37
(25 ≤ hp < 50) 2008 5.5 (4.1) - 7.5 (5.6) - 0.3 (0.22)
2013 5.5 (4.1) - 4.7 (3.5) - 0.03 (0.022)
37 ≤ kW < 56
(50 ≤ hp < 75) 2008 5.0 (3.7) - 4.7 (3.5) - 0.3b (0.22)
2013 5.0 (3.7) - 4.7 (3.5) - 0.03 (0.022)
56 ≤ kW < 130
(75 ≤ hp < 175) 2012-2014c 5.0 (3.7) 0.19 (0.14) - 0.40 (0.30) 0.02 (0.015)
130 ≤ kW ≤ 560
(175 ≤ hp ≤ 750) 2011-2014d 3.5 (2.6) 0.19 (0.14) - 0.40 (0.30) 0.02 (0.015)
a - hand-startable, air-cooled, DI engines may be certified to Tier 2 standards through 2009 and to an optional PM standard of 0.6 g/kWh starting in 2010
b - 0.4 g/kWh (Tier 2) if manufacturer complies with the 0.03 g/kWh standard from 2012
c - PM/CO: full compliance from 2012; NOx/HC: Option 1 (if banked Tier 2 credits used)—50% engines must comply in 2012-2013; Option 2 (if no Tier 2 credits claimed)—25% engines must comply in 2012-2014, with full compliance from 2014.12.31
d - PM/CO: full compliance from 2011; NOx/HC: 50% engines must comply in 2011-2013

 

[art]

One more point.... There are people claiming that tier 4 is actually better than tier 3. With tier 4, they let the engine make the power and run like it wants to and is meant to and just treat the exhaust instead of messing with the engine. Optimize the motor for horsepower or efficiency and worry about the emissions at the stack. Ask any CaseIH guy about this.

You are correct that with the tier 4 it did help performance! Tier 3 most manufacturers found the cheapest thing to do was ****** the timing and good engine people know that costs performance and economy. Tier 4 with the fluid allowed them to advance the timing and increase fuel economy as well as overall performance.

 

[Peatybass]

I've personally have had mine (LS XR 3037 cab model) back to the dealer trying to troubleshoot a regen problem. They can't figure it out. I am still having the problem. This tractor has less than 500 hours on it. No other problems whatsoever. EXCEPT NO REGEN!!! This is a side job tractor making a little extra money. Hard to do when it's at the dealer for over a week at a time. After warranty is up, then what. All the problems are out of my pocket. That's why I'm reading this page trying to find a way to reflash and delete DPF.