No "glow" Glow Plugs

   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #21  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( What you've described is just plain -Parallel- electrical conection... I know it is a tad nit picky.. but for the electrical novices that have just taken basic ac and dc electronics.. the use of series and parallel in the above fashion may confuse some)</font>
You're not considering the whole circuit Chris. When ganged by bussbar (jumper wire on two cylinder models), the glow plugs represent a parallel segment in a series-parallel circuit. It's dead simple to draw out yourself. At the risk of being redundant, it goes
SUPPLY
battery (+12v)
cable
starter solenoid
wire #2
system fuse
wire #3
ammeter
wire #5
ignition switch
wire #12
All in series so far, agreed? None of the paralleled glow plugs will operate if there is an open anywhere in the supply segment of the circuit. Series. So let's take it from wire 12 again, still in series:
wire #12 (series)
bussbar or jumper wire #13 (parallel)
glow plugs (parallel)
cylinder head (parallel)
GROUND
negative cable (series)
battery (-12V)

A 30A system fuse will blow long before a bussbar/jumper could possibly melt, so any open in the paralleled segment will not interrupt the circuit to the other glow plug(s). But an open in either series segment, kills the entire circuit. Series-parallel.

I keep saying, that one of these days you're actually gonna have to BUY a Chinese tractor. Once you've invested some troubleshooting and maintenance hours on these things, the dinosaur technology will start making more sense to you.

//greg//
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #22  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

<font color="blue"> when any glow plug burns out, the current is reduced and the voltage increases </font>

In a 12 volt system the voltage can never go up higher than 12 volts. And the glow plugs ARE rated at 12 or above.
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #23  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

OK, you have a combination series-parallel circuit. What CHRIS (Soundguy) said was the glow plugs are connected in parallel, but just that part of the ciruit.
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #24  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

OHMS,VOLTS,AMPS,,I got a simple test for you,,its starting to get cold,right? Well,,,,I have a 254,,,but I bet this part works about the same,,,,the first morning or evening it gets down to about 35 degress,,try starting it without glow plugs,,,see how that works out,,if yours is like mine it will take a few trys with out glow plug useage,,,now the next cold morning,,pause your switch on the glow plug postion,give it 1/8 to 1/4 throttle,,give it 15 seconds or so,,,than try it,,if yours is like mine,it will start in first try,you will know if glow plugs work or not,,,and yes nortrac is very good about standing behind what they sell,,mines a nortrac too. thingy
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #25  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You're not considering the whole circuit Chris. When ganged by bussbar (jumper wire on two cylinder models), the glow plugs represent a parallel segment in a series-parallel circuit. It's dead simple to draw out yourself. At the risk of being redundant, it goes )</font>

We may be running into some terminoligy and nomenclature problems.

When i went to school, the series / parallel issue concerned the load on the circuit, and current flow.. The fact that a wire runs from a battery to a fuse to a switch and then to two parralleled lamps, and then to ground does not specifically make it a seriesl parallel circuit, because there are a couple non load components in the circuit. The load components being parallel are the main 'makeup' of the circuit.

Change that and have battery, fuse, switch, resistor, and then two paralleled lamps and then you have a circuit that has series and parallel load components.. or as you said.. a parallel segment in a series circuit.

Again.. this may be pure nomenclature. You don't here people refering to accumulators when talking about 'registers' in modern computers. condensor is generally used only when refering to 'old' equipment.. whereas capacitor seems to have more widespread usage. Same with rentogens vs rads when looking at radioactive measurement. I'm not sure how it was taught when you were picking up your electronics background. I pretty much was taught to view a circuit as current flow. A circuit that has a battery in common, and lots of loads that each reference positive and negative, is a parallel circuit.

In the circuit you mapped out in your messgae.. there are lots of wires, switches, etc.. but each load device is essentially directly referencing positive and negative. There are no series loads in that circuit. The relay is referencing +/- .. the glow plugs are also each individually referencing +/-.

If there were load or other ballast type resistors in line with the positive feed wire then it would be another story.. Or if they were using load devices in series.. say two 6v lamps in series to handle the 12v power source... etc.

To view it another way.. current in a series circuit is constant . No matter where you break a simple series circuit and insert your meter, the current reading will be the same.

Current flow in a grouping of paralleled circuits may not be the same, it will depend on the load in question. To ilustrate this.. take 4 resistors of differing values.. wire them in series, and connect to a power source. No matter where you break the chain and insert your meter.. the current flow will be the same. Take those same 4 different value resistors and place each of them across the power supply.. because each has a different resistance value.. the current flowing thru each resitor will be different.

Mix those two circuits, and you will have a constant current reading when taken in line with any of the series components, or with the paralleled segemt, measured as a hole.. move into that segment, and different parts of the segment will be conducting different amounts of current, that when taken as a whole, will equal the current that is flowing thru the other series components elsewhere in that circuit.


</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A 30A system fuse will blow long before a bussbar/jumper could possibly melt )</font>

On paper sure... in the real world, all it takes is corrosion on that buss bar.. or physical damage to make it fail Generally though, not counting a failure.. you are correct. If the system fuse blows.. the rest of the circuit should be unpowered. However.. after reading back messages here.. the chineese engineers wiring these things don't seem too accurate, or consistant. I've just went back and found at least 4 instances/reports on non-standard wireing involving fuses, lack of fuses, extra wires on dash gauges.. etc. On new tractors.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I keep saying, that one of these days you're actually gonna have to BUY a Chinese tractor )</font>

Again.. no need to buy a chineese tractor to talk about an electrical circuit design.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Once you've invested some troubleshooting and maintenance hours on these things, the dinosaur technology will start making more sense to you )</font>

That technology is 'george jetson' light years ahead of some of my tractors. Consider the 30's era science that went into the fords i collect and work on. Leather seals in the engine, non pressurized cooling systems, Simple user controlled charge rate by adjusting the third brush on a dc generator, etc. Mechanical lifts on some of the earlier machinery, hand clutches, etc.

Soundguy
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #26  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

Actually, its because the Flux capaciter is not putting out 6.6 gigawatts of power.
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #27  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Actually, its because the Flux capaciter is not putting out 6.6 gigawatts of power. )</font>
Ain't that the truth.....ToolManRick is probably in hip boots by now.

//greg//
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

Slush, slop, gurgle gurgle. Deep breathing...

Hey, got that little amber diode indicator light installed on the glow plug circuit. Put it on the dash in between my parking brake light and the charge/run light. Easy to see. Cute little light beams a nice amber glow whenever the ignition switch is passing over the "H" position. AND, should the ign. switch screw up and juice the glow plugs in the run position I'll know it for sure. Now if those replacement glow plugs were only here.
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

Update.
Haven't installed the new glow plugs yet. I did get three new ones UPS yesterday evening. I did put an OHM meter on them and ARRggg, 2 read 1.7 ohms and 1 read --- (open). Drat. Called Kirk at NorTrac again and he was openly disappointed about 1 being faulty and put another one on the truck. They have been very good about it. They still didn't want the 4 bad ones sent back for verification. Good sports they are. Hope they checked the one they sent yesterday. I'm going to look like I'm trying to rip them off if it too is faulty. Got my fingers crossed.
 
   / No "glow" Glow Plugs #30  
Re: No \"glow\" Glow Plugs

You would think they would have checked ALL of them before they sent them.

QC in action...

Soundguy
 
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