No power steering on a Terramite

[cstamm81]

ok, this tractor has one drive pump that bolts right to the rear end, no individual wheel motors. I would definitely inspect the drive pump as a potential source of problems. I will also clean the reservoir, strainer, and change the filter. Is there any chance of the source of contamination being in any of the following : steering unit that has the diverter valve inside of it, any hydraulic or return lines, or any hydraulic cylinders? I'm very paranoid now, I have to make the decision to spend a large sum of money to fix this. So, I want to be 100% sure I do not have any issues after installing the new or rebuilt pump. Besides disassembling every single cylinder and hose (ie anywhere that hydraulic oil flows through) how can I be sure of myself? Ahh, gotta love buying someone else's nightmare off of ebay...

 

[wdchyd]

the only thing I'd be paranoid about cleaning would be the the drive motor, reservoir, filters and suction hoses & screens and the hoses connecting drive motor to the pump

The steering components, cylinders will have some kind of return filter so any contaminates will be caught there before they return the oil back to reservoir ........unless the oil is milky (water), shiny silvery (suspended metal), or severly dirty I wouldn't worry too much about it

If you can put a few magnets in the reservoir that may help when you do your first oil change after the breakin to help visualize any steel particles floating around......I don't think it's necessary to disassemble everything....maybe go a little overboard with filter cleanliness for the first few hours of run time

We use a filter cart when running into catastrophic pump failures.......after a complete cleaning, reassembly, new oil......we use the filter cart to help filter the oil while it is running at idle, sometimes we'll run it for an hour or so

 

[cstamm81]

alright well I need to call Terramite and compare the price of new vs rebuilt. Then beg my wife to allow me to sink money into a tractor I did not need lol. I really appreciate all of the guidance with this, I will post up when I decide to buy or rebuild...
By suction hoses do you mean any hoses returning to tank, or just the larger diameter low pressure hoses? As for strainers, are they inside the suction hoses or how are they attached? I want to verify they are clean and intact. Previous owner had changed this hydraulic oil the year before, said he had maybe 25 hrs of run time after that. System calls for 15W40 and he had 10W30, but it looked very clean, no metal visible and no water present. Maybe the pump damage occurred many years ago.

 

[wdchyd]

Maybe the pump damage occurred many years ago.

Yes......
Most people do the clean and flush when the troubles first rear it's ugly head......hoping.......

but the damage has already been done and what you are doing is the best way......I've always said "Better to know what the problem is and not be able to do something about it, than not know what the trouble is from the start"

It's the reason why I preach to keep the oil & filters like new as an insurance policy.....it's not a garrantee of no troubles, but rather if you don't keep the oil clean it's a garrantee you will have troubles eventually

 

[the old grind]

Going back a ways ... if the pressure test going into the steering box showed low, the 'box' hasn't really been tested under proper circumstances. Could it be no more than possibly contaminated as routing from the bad pump might allow up to this point? ... only a symptom of the bigger problem?

Disassembly of the dated box itself is intimidating, to say the least. This pic is about all that's available to any who'd dare to juggle its pieces on the bench. The 4 bolts that hold the column on hold the rings, manifolds, and covers together as well. T-M's tech offered to talk me through removing the bolts when I was ready, and with his guidance keeping the stack of goodies together to replace #29 here:

.....

Seeing the innards of this oldie I can imagine a couple of extra hands or a really good setup to hold onto things. What I'm getting at is ... if there is no obvious junk in its line/inlet does it look like it can just be flushed out and (fingers crossed) given a shot as is or perhaps bench tested with a 'remote' supplying input (catch bucket outlet) and with the cylinder attached? (input pressure critical??)

I sincerely apologize for jumping so far ahead of the process, but with decision$ to be made the 'package' and the OP's resolution will come into focus soon enough. Others may encounter steering or pump issues, and this could be helpful in so many ways. This is good stuff ...

 

[wdchyd]

This pic is about all that's available to any who'd dare to juggle its pieces on the bench. The 4 bolts that hold the column on hold the rings, manifolds, and covers together as well. T-M's tech offered to talk me through removing the bolts when I was ready, and with his guidance keeping the stack of goodies together to replace #29 here:
.

A tip:

before you guys take apart ANY hyd steering unit (or hyd pump or motor) you need to take a small grinder and slice a line up the side of the housing to help orient the parts when you put it back together

these units have multiple sections that need to go back exactly the same way

:2cents:

 

[wdchyd]

Going back a ways ... if the pressure test going into the steering box showed low, the 'box' hasn't really been tested under proper circumstances. Could it be no more than possibly contaminated as routing from the bad pump might allow up to this point? ... only a symptom of the bigger problem?

You make a good point Old Grind

a hyd system is just that ....."a system"......it takes many parts to make it function, one weak link and it won't work right.....if pressure is low then nothing works downstream

kinda like working on an electrical system.....if you have problems with an elec motor, you wouldn't be tearing down the motor without checking the electrical power coming in,right??.....or checking the switch that operates it too

Troubleshooting, whether it is an electrical or hydraulic system is the most important part of repair work.....and I always said "How can you fix something if you don't know how it works".....this type of trouble will at least educate the tractor owner with understanding of how it works

 

[the old grind]

A tip:

before you guys take apart ANY hyd steering unit (or hyd pump or motor) you need to take a small grinder and slice a line up the side of the housing to help orient the parts when you put it back together

these units have multiple sections that need to go back exactly the same way

:2cents:

Thanks! On mine I'd be going for an absolute minimum of disassembly of the 'housing group' and just pulling #31 & up (jacket, shaft, upper cover etc) to swap in the new seal per T-M's advice and with their help. (that's my own deal for later(!) if I can get the s-wheel off & the column-box out, lol) & OT for now!

Wdchyd, with all the help you've been (99%?) I don't want to put you on the spot for the 'right' answers to all this. It'd be great if fixing the OP's pump was enough by itself (I call that 'wishful dreaming'). If others should go all thru' this possible 'fountain' of confusing little pieces to decontaminate a 'box' it could get deep and require a qualified professional like yourself going hands-on. IMO you deserve much more than smileys and thank you's for your assistance, already! (sincerity, not sarcasm, ok?)

I'd rather the OP wasn't the guinea pig for the rest of us T5C owners, but it seems to be new territory and if so there has to be a first. There's just so much inside a s-box box that'd have to go back together exactly right, as you've said earlier. Other than code stuff, plumbing & electrical do seem like childs play by comparison.

 

[wdchyd]

hydraulics is childs play too.....just sometimes more expensive.....:thumbsup:

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that hydraulics is either easy fixes or catastrophic fixes.....experience is the best teacher

hopefully talking this stuff out will bring out some questions and answers for others too

 

[cstamm81]

Ok, spent some good phone time with two different guys from TM today (one is a member on here). I can get the whole assembly, hydro trans, charge pump, gear pump apparently brand new from Eaton (sold through TM though) for about $1600. So not much more than having the old one rebuilt. I also asked about the torque motor as mine has two broken off ears and that is another $600.

TM service told me I might want to push the cylinders closed to force fluid out of the hoses, change filter, strainer and should be good to go. He kept saying anything I push back into the tank will not come back through due to the strainer. He mentioned cycling fluid through the torque motor if I do not replace. I asked but he did not say anything about the steering as being a concern, I believe he mentioned that the oil would be filtered / strained after going through the steering system and before returning to the pumps? Does this make sense?
the old grind, you bring up a great point and my cause for concern. IF I can justify dropping 1600 - 2200 on this, I NEED to assure myself that I have checked and double checked everything before installing brand new pumps. I love learning new things and doing my work myself, but with this amount of money I wish I knew someone locally who could help me assure myself of a problem free install.

I wish I knew the history of the tractor, but my best guess based on overall condition is that this thing lived a hard life. Hydraulic shop thought something significant must have gone through that pump to tear it up so badly. My job would become to make sure there is nothing still in the system to hose me again.