Old tractor recommendations

[valleydweller1]

A live PTO will allow for the PTO to continue to turn with the clutch depressed, usually to the first stop, and will not allow the power to continue to the drive wheels. A old Ford 8N, for example is a non-live PTO. Lets say you are using a 5' Bush Hog on a 8N and you push in the clutch the energy stored in the flywheel of the Bush Hog will transfer power back to the tractor continuing to drive the tractors wheels even though the clutch is depressed all the way. This can be a problem if you need to stop in a hurry. If you were to press the clutch in during a panic stop it may drive you another 30 feet. There are ways around this but for the most part you should get a LIVE PTO. Hopefully I have not confused you and maybe someone else will elaborate some on this topic or clear it up.

Chris

I think I get it, basically the engine's power output is split into the transmission and the PTO and they operate independantly?

Greg

 

[builder2]

mf 50 with live power.

 

[DavesTractor]

Forgot to mention.. check with local dealers.. lotsa times you see trades on lots...

If you go ford and need live pto.. if it is a 3-digit X00/X01 model.. look for *6* in the model number.

Soundguy

Yep, good advice, for example we just took in trade an IH504 diesel, a Massey 35 diesel with loader and a IH584 diesel, all in the last couple of weeks. Other dealers will have similar trades, so check with the local dealers, they may have bargains. If you want real bargains from a dealer and you are mechanical, buy them as-is before they go into the shop to get minor repairs and service work.

 

[thunderworks]

My first tractor was an International 504. I think it was approximately a 47hp engine hp, and probably lower 40's at the pto. I pulled a 7' Bushhog mower for three years with it, mowing approximately 33 acres total. I think the tractor was a late 1960's model. My tractor only had 1800 hours total, and 600 on a rebuilt motor, and if I remember right, I got around $4,000 for it. The tin was excellent, paint was faded, tires good. I had just replaced all fluids and serviced the tractor. It was a great machine! If you can find an old IH, it would be worth considering. Mine was surely reliable. Never had any trouble with it at all.

 

[DavesTractor]

My first tractor was an International 504. I think it was approximately a 47hp engine hp, and probably lower 40's at the pto. I pulled a 7' Bushhog mower for three years with it, mowing approximately 33 acres total. I think the tractor was a late 1960's model. My tractor only had 1800 hours total, and 600 on a rebuilt motor, and if I remember right, I got around $4,000 for it. The tin was excellent, paint was faded, tires good. I had just replaced all fluids and serviced the tractor. It was a great machine! If you can find an old IH, it would be worth considering. Mine was surely reliable. Never had any trouble with it at all.

They are good old machines, and parts are cheap for them. I am keeping the 1984 IH584 for the summer to mow my orchard with a 9' flail. That way I don't have to take a new tractor off the lot. These older utility tractors are a great value. Despite that, we sell a lot more compact 4wd tractors than utilities.

 

[Soundguy]

I think I get it, basically the engine's power output is split into the transmission and the PTO and they operate independantly?

Greg

That would be independent pto.. however ind pto is live.

other live pto setup require a 2-stage clutch.. OR 2 single stage clutches.. like a dive pinion cluch in combination with a regular trans clutch.. etc.

soundguy

 

[wolc123]

An easy, cheap fix to most of the troubles you have without live pto is an over running coupler (cost around $70). This will allow the pto to free spin when the clutch is engaged and keep the mower from pushing the tractor. A late model 8n with one of these is real handy on a 5 foot mower, although it still lacks live hydraulics (will not lift with clutch depressed). I would not hesitate to reccomend a 51 or 52 8n, and certainly no tractor before or after has better parts availability. There are so many of these around that it is easy to find one in good condition within your budget. I would not consider a 9n as they lacked "position" control which is tough for mowing and only had 3 speeds vs the 4 on the 8n, and I would also avoid the earlier 8n's with the front distributer. I had a Ford 2000 (diesel) and 3000 (gas), and they also would work for you but would be a little over your budget and parts are a little tougher to get. Both of these had quite a bit more power on the pto than my 51 8n, but could not pull much, if any, more on the drawbar. As long as you dont put a loader on it or do much disking of fresh plowed ground, the 8n's lack of power steering is not that big of a handicap. Those old machines had the smoothest steering of any non-power unit I have operated. I, and many others, consider the 51 and 52 8n's to be the high water mark of Ford designed tractors. I think they lost too much power/weight ratio and got overweight and clumsy with the Jubilee/600's, plus lost some durability on the hydraulics to gain a little convenience with the live system.

 

[Bob_Young]

Keep in mind, a lot of old gassers were designed back in the days of 30 cent a gallon gasoline. Some (not all) are gas hogs. Gas engines are generally less efficient than diesel to begin with. The crude, simple carburetion on older tractors, while being easy to work on, can be very inefficient; especially on the larger engines. Back in the day, the "breakpoint" seemed to be around 50HP. Below 50HP you could live with a gas engine and the economics made sense...with gas much cheaper than it is now. Above 50HP, diesel efficiency was needed.

We had an old JD60 back in the '70s for awhile. At around 55HP, that thing guzzled gas and had to go. The much smaller JD40, on the other hand, was pretty economical to run.

Another consideration is whether the seals & gaskets in the fuel system can put up with the additives in modern gasoline. With the govt's fingers in our fuel tanks now, what worked well yesterday could be terminally crippled tomorrow.

If someone gives you an old gas tractor or you've already got one; sure, try to keep it going. I wouldn't go out looking for one, however. There's a reason a lot of the old iron is relegated to show status.
FWIW
Bob

 

[art]

Even on the newer diesels there are some pretty good differences in fuel economy! It is rare to find someone that will complain or know the difference if they are only running a tank a week. Once the tractors get up into the 30 to fifty horsepower range some will burn an extra gallon during that tankful doing the same work. Once we see four or five dollars a gallon consistantly things will change as we are seeing it in the auto and truck industry.

 

[BTI]

Seems to be some confusion on PTO drive styles. I'll throw in what I know--
There are transmission driven with and without an Overrunning clutch (ORC).
The non-overrunning clutch ones are the ones that will push you, as has been stated, you can add-on an ORC.
Then there are live PTO's
A live PTO can be 2 stage clutch or independent, both have it's own clutch.
They are just engaged differently.
The independent clutches can be hydraulicly engaged, electrically engaged, or have their own lever.
The 2 stage style you push part way down on the clutch pedal and the tractor stops moving, but the PTO stays running.
Push down farther and the PTO stops turning.
Independent can have a lever, or a button (electric/hydraulic) or other way of energizing the independent clutch.
Tractor Guru's-I have a hard time explaining it all, feel free to throw in some knowledge

I for one would NOT recommend an 8n/9n, unless you have spent some time on one, there are way too many negatives.
The not being ablt to raise an implement without having the clutch out is a BIG one.
Coupled with the lack of low speeds, no ORC etc.
IMHO

BTI