Pond Building in East Texas

[meadowlarkponds]

The grow out pond above the main pond is about 50% complete now. The fish fence posts are set and part of the fish fence is in place. The fish fence is composed of fine mesh galvanized chicken wire augmented by plastic barrier fencing which should last a lifetime(in case the galvanized wire does not).

Only about half of the grow out pond is currently fenced and the other half will be left open until the main pond water level backs up to the grow out pond. In the meantime, a few dry days might enable some more digging out of the grow out area. Fish stocking of the main pond is next on the agenda and will begin after the Holidays. Happy Holidays to all!!!

 

[EddieWalker]

You can stock fish in January?

I'm always hesitant on stocking fish. I worry that it's too cold, too warm or they won't have enough to eat. It's probably some issues that have no basis on reality, but I'm suprised that you can stock fish so soon. What are you going to put in and how will they survive?

I like the use of the orange fence material. That should last forever!!!

Eddie



Eddie

 

[meadowlarkponds]

You can stock fish in January?

Yes, in my area in East Texas you can stock fish anytime the water temps are below 80 degrees. Conventional wisdom, which is often mistakenly based on geographical areas considerably north of us, says you shouldn't stock in fall/winter....but conventional wisdom which is geographically based is most often wrong when applied to ponds in different geographical regions.

The reasoning often given for NOT stocking in fall/winter is that the fish won't grow and may even die in frozen conditions. This simply is not true for my area. I have documented, on my web site, the growth of BG through the winter months. BG stocked at 4 inches in a newly renovated pond in late December doubled in size by spring. That means not only are they a much better size than if you had waited until spring to stock, but more importantly, they are ready to begin spawning immediately when temps warm in early spring. For a LMB pond, that BG spawning mode is what really supercharges the LMB growth.

IMO, it is extremely important, in LMB ponds to have those BG in spawning mode before you ever stock LMB. Otherwise, stunted LMB often are the result. It is really unfortunate that so many people get trapped by that conventional wisdom based on other geographical areas.

What are you going to put in and how will they survive?

I like a variety of forage. Hence, I'll stock fathead minnows, Gambusia, and Golden Shiners right away. Along with them, a few carefully selected adult CNBG (copper nosed blue gill) will be stocked from my other ponds. In addition, small CNBG and RES (red eared sunfish) will be procured from a commercial supplier and added to the mix. I hope to get those all in the pond in the next couple of weeks, depending on availability. Then, in June, I will pay a visit to Tyler Fish Farm to purchase the LMB. The LMB will be stocked at 25% pure Florida, 25% pure native, and 50% cross. Three or four grass carp will be added in June for preventive maintenance on vegetation growth.

In addition, I hope to use the new grow out pond to raise a few Tilapia and Pacu for release later in summer.

The young BG feed primarily on plankton and adult BG feed on small minnows and on insects when available. The fatheads and shiners will eat small aquatic organisms which begin populating a pond within days of the addition of standing water.

This approach works great for me in my geographical area and is, in my experience, the optimum way to start a pond on the path to great fishing and years of enjoyment.

 

[EddieWalker]

That makes allot of sense to me because we're so close to each other. I'm going about it slower then you are, but I'm also using few species of fish. This has me questioning myself as to what I should do.

In my pond, I have thousands, probably tens of thousands of fathead minnows in there right now. They are everywhere and you can't find an area of shoreline without school after school of them going by. I put in 2,000 copper nose bluegill from Tyler Fish Farms over the summer that were from quarter to half dollar in size. Before that and even last year, I started catching CNBG by the hundreds of all sizes and letting them go from my smaller pond that was also supplied from Tyler Fish Farms. I have no idea if they have spawned yet, but sort of guess that some have from my early stocking efforts. If not, I'll have a big spawn this spring for sure.

There are also about 40 channel catfish in there that are in the 3 pound range.

My Father In Law and I have been catching large mouth bass from several ponds that were stocked from Tyler Fish Farms about ten years ago, give or take a few years. He's cought them in those ponds as big as 8 pounds, but considers 4 to 6 pounds to be the biggest he can catch from time to time, and 2 -3 pounds normal catches that he can pull out all day when conditions re right. He's had days where he's cought 20 and a friend has done the same, that were all in that 2-3 pound range.

I'm putting those fish into my pond when he catches a few of them, but this is something that we've just started doing over the last month. I have 12 of them in there so far, and they are all over 2 pounds.

I'm not sure about Gambusia and Golden Shiners and what they do. Who eats them and what part of the food chain do they fill? Since you are putting them in your pond, I think I want them in my pond too!!! Does Bob sell them at Tyler Fish Farms?

I've asked this a few times over on Pondboss, but never get a straight answer. What do red eared sunfish add to a pond? From what I've read, they are snail eaters that stay in deep water. Are they for cleaning the pond? Do you fish them? Do they spawn in large numbers and provide forage for the predators?

What size LMB will you get and why? I've been debating wether to add more this fall or not. It seems like a good idea to get as many in there as I can, but just buying them to be spending money doesn't make any sense either. If I could add a few Northerns and Floridas to the mix to add some variety, that makes allot of sense to me. Maybe the F1's too!!!

When I last talked to Bob, he mentioned that November was a good time to stock fish, but didn't say if I could or should not do so after that. I won't have a chance to do anything until early to middle of January, but would love to add more fish if I can. I really like the idea of lots of variety for no other reason then to have lots of different fish.

Eddie

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Eddie,

Good questions. I will try to respond with answers (opinions) based on my experiences and hopefully they will be good answers.

First, I agree with your Father-in-law's experience on the size of pond raised LMB. I've raised them to 10 pounds in ponds, but know that fish that size aren't going to be caught often, if at all. They don't survive to that size by being stupid.

In my ponds, I strive for high predator catch rates (8 to 10 per hour) with a 50% probability of catching one 5 pound (or larger) LMB during a typical fishing session of one to two hours. Stated another way, my objectives are lots of action with a good chance of catching a really nice fish during each fishing session. It all depends on your objectives.

Let's group your comments/questions into the following 4 topics for discussion:

1) Achieving a pond balance consistent with your objectives
2) How many predators and what sizes and types?
3) Why RES?
4) Forage types: Why Gambusia amd Shiners?



In the interests of keeping the post manageable, let's make a separate discussion and post out of each of the above 4 topics. Each of those posts will follow.

Your comments are welcomed as well as any others who wish to chime in. Thanks for your questions and interest.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Topic 1: Achieving a pond balance consistent with your objectives.

Nature moves in the direction toward equilibrium in ponds or what most call balance. The level of equilibrium or balance achieved is driven by a very complex set of variables not the least of which include your initial and recurring stocking rates and your pond management strategy. Let us just say, for discussion purposes, that all other variables are equal (which they never are in ponds) and we are just dealing with stocking rates and pond management strategy.

If you have a very high stocking rate of LMB, all other things being equal, then your LMB will tend toward small and possibly stunted fish. If you have insufficient forage, the resulting balance will be similar.

Most folks agree that in recreational, non-aquaculture ponds like we have, we can reasonably support 100 pounds per acre of predators, more or less. Every pond is different, however.

If your pond management strategy allows the LMB numbers and total weight to go significantly higher than the 100 pounds per acre, then the result may again be small, stunted fish. The pond will reach a balance but the resulting size of the fish may not be consistent with your objectives.

Ok, I said all that to caution you on adding mature LMB to your ponds. Be careful to keep track of how many and what weight you add. Otherwise, you may very well find your balance shifting toward that small fish, stunted fish extreme. It can happen very quickly. If you have added 12 mature LMB so far, then you have probably added something like 30 pounds. What was your initial stocking rate and do you remove any LMB? If you stocked 100 LMB per acre a year ago and did not remove any, then you would be at or above the 100 pounds per acre WITHOUT counting the additional 30 pounds of added LMB.

By the way, in my view, those channel catfish should count towards that 100 pounds per acre of predators as would any other predator type fish you may have added. If you artificially feed the cats, then maybe you could argue they do not all count towards the 100 pounds, but they do eat small fish and compete with the LMB for certain foods. .

It is really a tricky deal, adding mature LMB to an existing LMB population. It is very difficult to know what you have in the pond at any given time and to develop appropriate management strategies. It requires very careful monitoring and a willingness to implement strategies which manage the balance toward your objectives. For example, you may need to impose a slot limit and remove all LMB below 15, 14, 13, etc. inches in order to help manage the balance towards your objectives.

I am not saying that mature LMB should not be added, just saying that doing so makes the management problems more acute and perhaps requiring more attention. The next topic is closely related.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Topic 2: How many predators and what sizes and types?

Again in recreational ponds, 100 pounds per acre is a generally accepted good rule of thumb for sustainment...the higher you go, the more problems you may encounter.

If your objectives are to raise trophy LMB, then you would want your stocking strategy to tend towards the light side, i.e. stocking 50 LMB fingerlings per acre or less rather than 100 per acre which is commonly recommended. If you have predators other than LMB, such as catfish, hybrid striped bass, etc. they must factor into the initial stocking strategy for LMB also.

After trying it several different ways, I've found the best way for me is to stock LMB at 6 inches or less. That way I know what I have in the pond and can manage accordingly. I have found in ranching and in ponds that creatures achieve a much better end condition the smaller/younger they are when transplanted into a new environment. A cow transplanted as a two year old vs a transplanted weaned calf will not grow out as well, in my experience. Likewise with fish in ponds. A LMB transplanted at fingerling size will grow out much better than a mature LMB transplant, in my experience.

The types of predators are somewhat personal preference but among the LMB certain things seem to be recurrent. A pure Florida strain LMB will achieve larger sizes in ponds than will the native LMB all other things being equal. However, the pure strain Florida is by far the most difficult LMB to catch on artificials in ponds. A native LMB (northern) is the most aggressive fish and can often be caught repeatedly in ponds on artificials. However, the natives do not achieve the top end weights of the Floridas in ponds. It comes down to personal preferences, but a mixture of pure Florida, pure native, and the F1 cross makes a lot of sense to me for my ponds.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Topic 3: Why red eared sunfish (RES)?

As you mentioned, RES prefer shellfish for food items and since the source of parasites in pond fish are often shellfish, RES are desired by pond owners. In my East Texas waters, I do not have much success with RES. I stock a few and generally never see them again. Likewise, just about everyone around here has the same experience. Different geography different results perhaps, but I have never understood the fascination that some folks seem to have with RES in ponds. By the way, if you purchased your CNBG from Bob, then you likely had about 10 to 20% RES in the mix. IMO, that is plenty for parasite control and additional stocking is not warranted in our East Texas ponds

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Topic 4: Forage types: Why Gambusia and why Shiners?

If your objectives are for a LMB pond, then you must have forage. It takes 10 pounds of forage to put one pound of weight on a LMB and 5 pounds of forage just to sustain a LMB per season.

BG provide the majority of forage in most LMB ponds, but other species can help. Fatheads, for example, will provide a great initial start to your LMB but generally do not survive predation more than a year. You seem to have a large number of fatheads and that is a good thing, but watch them disappear next summer. Re-stocking is not efficient.

Shiners are similar but somewhat different. They spawn only once a year in our ponds, unlike fatheads which can spawn three or more times a year. On the other hand, those that can survive predation can grow to sizes which can somewhat protect them from predation. So, for me, I will try to raise some shiners in the grow out pond for release when they have achieved a few inches of growth.

Gambusia occurs naturally in our East Texas ponds. They are also often called mosquito fish because of their propensity for consuming mosquito larva. Some folks, including Bob I think, do not particularly like Gambusia in their ponds, but around my place, it is not a choice. They find a way in.

Unlike some others, I actually like Gambusia because, unlike fatheads and shiners, they will survive predation and can sustain a population for many, many years (indefinitely) producing huge numbers of offspring for consumption, spawning every month or so. Some folks say they also attack the eggs/fry of other fish and hence do not like them, but I have not experienced any adverse effects from Gambusia that I know of.

Either way, a pond around here will contain Gambusia eventually, like them or not.

Of course, you know I am a huge fan of Tilapia for pond forage and pond algae control but they are a whole topic unto themselves and you did not ask about them.

Well, that's my answers/opinions. I hope you found them interesting. Like a certain part of our anatomy everyone has an opinion and you have now read mine. Everything I wrote is based on my own personal experiences in my ponds in East Texas. Thanks.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Several folks have asked how this pond turned out, so thought I'd post a couple of pictures....one from the dam looking back at the pier and another viewing the growout pond. Its about 4 inches short of full pool and fish are active.