Power Trac 425/1430 feel/size compared to SCUT/CUT

[MossRoad]

Another thing to know is that johara1 used to own a PT422, so he's got the experience to compare that platform with his current machine. He switched to the Ventrac for good reasons... it performed his needs better. How do I know this? We've been talking about these things for 15+ years. :laughing:

Anyhow, I wish we knew the OPs needs and tasks. Maybe he has a life/job and will reply when he gets a chance.

 

[tommott77]

HI all. sorry for the late reply, busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest as always.

In terms of my needs. The tractor will be used to serve my roughly 1 acre home property of all lawn, where it will be used 90% for mowing. It's been wet and soggy here and my property retains a lot of moisture in the first place. The other 10% would be loader work and other clean-up/mowing type work at my other local rental properties all being in an urban setting with small lawns. So the smaller the foot print size the better. Currently I have a JD 1025R that I haven't been able to take out of the shed for going on 2 months now since it's not getting warm enough to dry up all the moisture. Even when dry enough for it the cutting performance is far from great due to the hanging mower deck I believe.

It will also be used at my 11 acre mountain property where I'm building vacation rental cabins. The 11 acres is a bit of misnomer as its literally the side of a mountain with the only really accessible areas to equipment being the road up the property and the building pads for the cabins (drone video of this property below). Up there its 90% loader work, fixing driveways, moving gravel, dirt, mulch, etc. It's steep going from top to bottom, with very little margin for error so maneuverability is the key there too. Currently I have a JD 3025 that I keep up there and a small CAT mini ex. After the cabin that I'm starting to build is completed I'm thinking I'm going to sell the 3025 as it won't be needed much.

Fire Fly in' - Aerial view of the cabin and a look at...

Lastly I see the power trac/Ventrac debate has already started. Ventracs/Steiners or also something I've considered. I've started to write that option off recently though as 1) the price is just getting up there for my needs and 2) I do need a real loader to be able lift and move building supplies, equipment with forks constantly. I know that the Ventracs do have the versa loaders but Ventrac themselves seem real quick themselves to point out that their loaders capabilities leave a lot to be desired. Curious as to how the actual performance of the loader say on the smaller 425 would compare to a SCUT or Ventrac? The 425 looks to have stronger hydraulics than a 1025. Does the better geometry of the loader and engine placement in the rear drastically improve the lifting capabilities of the 425 compared to Ventrac to the point it's on par on with the 1025 in terms of stability?

As far as mowing is concerned I won't be mowing any slopes anytime soon. I'll just take for granted that the Ventrac would be the superior mower of the three. Aside from that would the larger 1430 be something that you could actually mow with or would I need to with a 425? How would a 1430 compare to my 1025 in the real world cut wise? Spec wise it's obviously much larger/heavier but looks to have about the same turning radius with oscillation/articulation, and the advantage of having the mower out front which I like.

 

[johara1]

This started as a person shopping for what brand of tractor to purchase. So just because you are satisfied with a 2' high loader doesn't mean anyone else will be. You keep bringing up the 425 which cost $13,200 and comparing it to a Ventrac that cost $22,600 and you still can't match it. You should compare your machine to the 1430 which is still cheaper($18,800) then the ventrac and is a much higher category of performance. When I look at the Ventrac site, they tell me that it has better visibility so we now know there are mistruths in their advertising. On the visibility topic, tell me why they still put the engine in the front and then have to put steel weights on the back? The PT out of the box comes balance and ready to perform to spec. and no hood to try and look over to see what your implement is doing. With a front engine it would be better getting a CUT like a Kubota and not buy a Ventrac that has a Kubota engine and still have your implement driven by a fan belt.
And really if you thing about it, your finish mower is $5,500 and the rough cut mower is $5,000. So for those 2 implements you have $10,500 added to the price. The 1430's mower only cost $3,100 and $1,600 respectively, a $5,800 savings over Ventrac!! Money to buy more (less expensive) implements. How can you still continue to argue this????

Very simple use all three or four what I have done and yo will soon find out you get what you pay for. it is a total joke to compare them my B belt will run an 8 foot mower and it will push it up a hill a 425 won't hardly go up, let alone cut and it will go side wase on the hill and work where a Kubota cut will roll over.... BTW they do cost more but that included a 3 yr. warranty..... Warranty on my 422 was 50 feet or 50 seconds what ever came first..... jim

 

[ponytug]

You do seem to have a varied list of requirements. I have the larger 1445, which might be great for your mountain property, but I think might be bigger than optimal for your 1acre and in city work. I would vote for the 1430 if you want a diesel. It will mow, lift, and haul. If you want off road on that mountain property...PT1850 or Cat D4?

Why not go visit the PT factory and try them out?

Can I ask why diesel is important? Or why you don't want to consider the 425? From this armchair, it seems like a good fit from what you describe. Sometimes though you might be better off with two different machines.

All the best,

Peter

 

[woodlandfarms]

Where do you live? Might be one local for you to get some time on. I keep forgetting covid but it might be an option.

 

[tommott77]

You do seem to have a varied list of requirements. I have the larger 1445, which might be great for your mountain property, but I think might be bigger than optimal for your 1acre and in city work. I would vote for the 1430 if you want a diesel. It will mow, lift, and haul. If you want off road on that mountain property...PT1850 or Cat D4?

Why not go visit the PT factory and try them out?

Can I ask why diesel is important? Or why you don't want to consider the 425? From this armchair, it seems like a good fit from what you describe. Sometimes though you might be better off with two different machines.

All the best,

Peter

As far as the diesel is concerned the short answer is I have a personal rule that I won't spend that kind of money on gas powered equipment and at this point I'm 100% used to running diesel equipment for the past so many years. The long answer consists of I don't trust the gas available these days. There may be periods of times when the tractor sits for a couple months. Time is always my biggest issue and I don't want to spend time winterizing a gas motor and/or draining fuels, etc. I need the tractor to be a turn of the key away from starting at all times. There will also be times where I will work the machine all day, everyday for the better of a week. I'm not sure if I'd trust gas powered machine, especially air cooled, for that kind of work and I'm sure fuel consumption would be pretty horrid in those conditions. Throw in the longevity/lifespan, and ease of maintenance for those small diesels and you've derived at my personal rule.

That being said I am not 100% clear on the available engines on the various model and the website is pretty vague. I'm still not entirely sure what engine the 425 currently has, if it's air cooled or water cooled, fuel injected, etc? I see I pic of a Kohler on their website but I'm not sure if that's up to date. The 1430 has the 30 hp Deutz listed but literally zero specs. I want to say I've seen both air cooled and liquid cooled deutzs before. With the 30hp does it have a DPF and any accompanying regen issues?

Ideally I am looking for a jack of all trades. That's why I bought another JD 1 series last year. I'm just not happy with the mowing performance and the fact that?ｴs too much for my wet yard a good portion of the year. If I were to build my perfect tractor from scratch the end result would literally almost be exactly a power trac the size of a 425, possibly slightly larger depending on how the chassis handles the loader work , but with a Diesel engine. I could try to consider living with a gas powered machine, or at least give it a try, for the work at my home. Doubtful I've ever trust a gas motor for the hard type of work on the mountain property though and I'd then have to keep the 3025 up at the mountain property where it would see very little/infrequent work. I could also consider swapping in a diesel into a 425 myself if the 1430 proves too large. I assume with everything being pump driven I It痴 just a matter of physically fitting a diesel motor/radiator in there and mating it to the pump.

Tazewell is about 6 hours from my home but it looks like I may be able to fit a stop by there in one day on one of my trips to or back from the mountains. Before going up there I would like to get the best sense possible how the 425 or 1430 compares to SCUT or CUT with anybody who's owned run both before. I also did call up there last week and it sounded like they may not have any 1430s in stock at the moment.

 

[MossRoad]

Speaking strictly from my experiences with my PT425 for about 20 years, it will not mow the slopes you are describing to your satisfaction. A couple reasons. 1, the KOHLER engine in my unit is limited to 25 degrees due to the lubrication system. 2. as the oil heats up from mowing, after several hours, the machine will lose power making it harder to push a running mower up a slope.

Do you know the degree of slope of your properties? That is important.

Next thing to look at would be asking PowerTrac what engine they are currently putting in the PT425. They used to use Kohler, then they switched to Robbin. Those had some issues with colds weather starting, but otherwise I think there are some very satisfied Robbin powered owners. Rumors have it PowerTrac has switched back to Kohler, so ask them to be certain.

As for the diesel powered PowerTracs, as far as I know none of them are air OR liquid cooled. The Deutz engines are oil cooled.

Back to gas engines. I've never had the Kohler fail to start down to -5F (I give it a short squirt of starting fluid if it's under 10F). I have never used gasoline stabilizer. I have only used 87 octane 10% ethanol. The unit has sat for months sometimes with no use. It's stored in un-heated sheds and garages. Always starts. For that matter, I've used 87 octane 10% ethanol untreated in ALL of my small engines and automobile engines since the mid 80s. Never a fuel issue. Ever. Follow your manufacturer's recommended fuel procedures and you'll be fine.

Fuel consumption on my PT425 with the Kohler is just a tad over 1 gallon per hour. Put 4.5 gallons in the tank, run it till lunch, take a break, refill, run till supper. No issues.

Mowing is the most taxing activity on the unit. Similar with brush cutting. FEL work is not very hard on the unit at all. Neither is snow remove, fork work, etc... only mowing causes the heat build up over several hours.

It sounds like your main concerns are mowing, given you comments on your JD unit and lawn damage.

I live on one acre of grass. The PT425 mows it every week. Very flat lawn. Takes about 25 minutes. I like the results. It's not a show lawn, but it's still the nicest in the neighborhood (until the rain stops :laughing. We also have 20 acres of hilly property 9 miles away. I use the PT425 to brush hog trails and meadows, remove firewood, etc... I have some steep slopes and have no problems, but I'm not mowing large areas on those slopes, only two-pass-wide trails.

Another thing you should be aware of is conventional tractors are meant for pulling, and they excel at ground engaging implements like pulling dirt plows, box blades, etc... the PT units are better loaders. They're built for it. In my opinion, the PT units are better mowers and brush cutters in tight spaces, lawns, trails, etc.. where as a conventional tractor would be great in large open spaces.

Having the implements out front where you can see them really makes a difference. Brush is cut down before you run over it and you don't have to strain your neck looking behind you.

See if you can find someone close to you that might demo a unit for you, or make the trip to Tazewell. I'm guessing you'll gravitate towards the 1430 sized units.

Good luck in your search.

 

[tommott77]

Speaking strictly from my experiences with my PT425 for about 20 years, it will not mow the slopes you are describing to your satisfaction. A couple reasons. 1, the KOHLER engine in my unit is limited to 25 degrees due to the lubrication system. 2. as the oil heats up from mowing, after several hours, the machine will lose power making it harder to push a running mower up a slope.

Do you know the degree of slope of your properties? That is important.

Next thing to look at would be asking PowerTrac what engine they are currently putting in the PT425. They used to use Kohler, then they switched to Robbin. Those had some issues with colds weather starting, but otherwise I think there are some very satisfied Robbin powered owners. Rumors have it PowerTrac has switched back to Kohler, so ask them to be certain.

As for the diesel powered PowerTracs, as far as I know none of them are air OR liquid cooled. The Deutz engines are oil cooled.

Back to gas engines. I've never had the Kohler fail to start down to -5F (I give it a short squirt of starting fluid if it's under 10F). I have never used gasoline stabilizer. I have only used 87 octane 10% ethanol. The unit has sat for months sometimes with no use. It's stored in un-heated sheds and garages. Always starts. For that matter, I've used 87 octane 10% ethanol untreated in ALL of my small engines and automobile engines since the mid 80s. Never a fuel issue. Ever. Follow your manufacturer's recommended fuel procedures and you'll be fine.

Fuel consumption on my PT425 with the Kohler is just a tad over 1 gallon per hour. Put 4.5 gallons in the tank, run it till lunch, take a break, refill, run till supper. No issues.

Mowing is the most taxing activity on the unit. Similar with brush cutting. FEL work is not very hard on the unit at all. Neither is snow remove, fork work, etc... only mowing causes the heat build up over several hours.

It sounds like your main concerns are mowing, given you comments on your JD unit and lawn damage.

I live on one acre of grass. The PT425 mows it every week. Very flat lawn. Takes about 25 minutes. I like the results. It's not a show lawn, but it's still the nicest in the neighborhood (until the rain stops :laughing. We also have 20 acres of hilly property 9 miles away. I use the PT425 to brush hog trails and meadows, remove firewood, etc... I have some steep slopes and have no problems, but I'm not mowing large areas on those slopes, only two-pass-wide trails.

Another thing you should be aware of is conventional tractors are meant for pulling, and they excel at ground engaging implements like pulling dirt plows, box blades, etc... the PT units are better loaders. They're built for it. In my opinion, the PT units are better mowers and brush cutters in tight spaces, lawns, trails, etc.. where as a conventional tractor would be great in large open spaces.

Having the implements out front where you can see them really makes a difference. Brush is cut down before you run over it and you don't have to strain your neck looking behind you.

See if you can find someone close to you that might demo a unit for you, or make the trip to Tazewell. I'm guessing you'll gravitate towards the 1430 sized units.

Good luck in your search.

Thanks for all that info. Ive put in my info power trac to have them send some paperwork to me. Hopefully it will include more details, specs, etc.

I actually won't be mowing on any slopes at all. My mowing will mainly consist at my home property where the terrain is flat, but often soggy and there's lots of obstacles to mow around on my approx 1 acre lawn. So nimbleness and maneuverability are the keys there. I'm not necessarily ruling out the 425. I could maybe get used to the gas motor, use it exclusively on my yard, and/or swap it out with a diesel if I don't like it.

I'm afraid the 1430 may be a bit too large for my yard, but looks about perfect for everything else. I do need to see some in the flesh to get a feel for them though. I'm in south east NC but drive to western NC a lot. If anybody happens to be the vicinity and they'd be willing to let me check out their machines let me know. Otherwise I'll try to get out to Tazewell during one of my next trips.

 

[MowMN]

It sounds as though you may need a couple of different machines for your needs. I’m not so sure that a single jack-of-all-trades unit would really do everything as well as you would want in the end.

The FEL capacity of your 1025R is actually a bit better than the 425. Both have similar rated lift capacities while your 1025R has an additional 12” of lift height over the PT. The 1430 will give you the same lift height and several hundred pounds more capacity if you go up to the larger machine.

From a mowing standpoint, if you are currently not happy with the performance of the 1025R on your wet yard, keep in mind that the 1430 is a much heavier unit. The articulation of the 1430 helps to minimize turf damage but you are likely still going to leave ruts when driving over soft ground with it. Honestly the best machine in that situation is going to be a Steiner/Ventrac with dual wheel kit. In this configuration, the machine has less ground pressure from the tires than your feet do walking across the lawn.

The Steiner/Ventrac lineup is very expensive if you buy new. If you don’t mind getting a used machine, however, you can typically find some pretty good deals if you are patient and keep your eye out for sales – particularly from the local universities/municipalities or contractors that are upgrading their equipment. My neighbor recently bought a used Steiner 420 with dual wheel kit and finish deck for $3500. Something like that is a nearly bulletproof mowing and snow removal solution with the addition of a plow or blower. As for myself, I purchased a used Ventrac from the park service along with a new power broom, scoop and 60” deck all for less than the price of a new 425 alone.

If I was in your shoes, I would consider getting a machine that is going to excel at mowing since you are not happy with the current setup and are going to be doing a lot of it with the machine based upon your post. You could then keep your 1025R, get a few cheap 3pt attachments (land plane, box blade, etc), and you would have your solution to maintaining your gravel drive and FEL tasks. If the 1025R is not stable enough for your mountain property, then consider replacing it with one of the larger diesel PTs which will be a safer machine on the slopes. You may even be able to find one used although they are not as common as the other name brand machines. Best of luck!

 

[airbiscuit]