pto pressure washer

   / pto pressure washer #11  
ampsucker said:
.i have about 17 pto hp so a 3:1 gear box would get me 3 times the speed, or around 1620 rpms, at 1/3 the power or around 5 hp at the output shaft considering some gearing losses.

Amp,

It doesn't work like that. Ignoring frictional losses, if you gear the SPEED up by three, your new TORQUE is 1/3 of the original torque but the HORSEPOWER remains at 17.

With that extra power in mind, you could probably gear it up by 4 or 6 and let your tractor run slower.

John
 
   / pto pressure washer #12  
I posted some links to PTO powered pressure washers and paint sprayers several years ago in the Kubota threads for the same reason.

I agree with the theory of having fewer IC engines to maintain. Following this logic, having PTO powered chippers, generators, log splitters, PHDs, etc. saves money and maintenance versus having dedicated IC engine powered models of those items.

From a strictly financial point of view, however, when electrically powered models are compared and contrasted with PTO powered models, the electrically powered models are often less expensive to purchase, last a long time, don't require maintenance if just sitting in stasis, and don't put hours on the tractor. For this reason, I take PTO power over an additional IC engine, but IF a machine has a powerful enough electric motor, I take the electric over the PTO.

Here is my old thread with links to manufacturers. Only one (#2) of the links still works. Go to Google advanced search and enter "pressure washer" on the exact words line and PTO on the extra words line and see what comes up.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/52226-power-take-off-driven-pressure.html
 
   / pto pressure washer #13  
HERE is a link to an older thread that ha good info on these, You could PM member Maxfli and see if he ever got it up and running...
 
   / pto pressure washer #15  
Don't get me wrong I hate small gas motors. I love electric ones. My tractor is 52 hp and costs about 25$ an hour to leave running at idle depending on what I end up getting resale. I already put 200 hours a year on it which I'm trying to keep down for resale reasons.
Ken

jeffinsgf said:
I don't get this. Not many of us will ever, EVER put the amount of hours on our tractors necessary to see any significant wear. Why would you rather spend money on yet another power plant -- gas, diesel or electric -- when you have an ideal one already? My 455 uses less fuel than any >3HP gasoline engine I've ever owned. As self-powered implements die on my place, they will all be replaced by PTO units.
 
   / pto pressure washer
  • Thread Starter
#16  
sorry about starting this thread and not posting back much. i was out of town. ;-0

jmc, thanks for the correction on my statement about horsepower. i was noodling that around all weekend long suspicious that i had the wrong concept when i wrote it down. yes, power is work over time, torque is force times lever arm. so, torque goes down the higher the gearing but power stays the same although you have more frictional losses through the gear box.

gt2, could you explain more about the gpm vs. pressue idea? i have read that professional washers are more geared to volumes of water. i'm invisioning a firehose vs. a garden hose. i think one would still need a certain minimum pressure to take off dirt even with large volume, but i can see how larger volume would be beneficial in carrying away debris and stuff. i suppose you are also limited by your source of water (less than 5-6 gpm for most garden hoses?) unless you get some type of resevoir tank set up that can temporarily supply larger volumes.

thanks to the other posters for the links. i'll be following up on those shortly. i like the car wash supply idea, especially if their pumps produce well at lower rpms.

for the gear box vs. belts, i was thinking that it would be cheaper to go with belts and pulleys. but, two possible issues came to mind. first, safety. belts have to be more enclosed to keep clothing from getting sucked in. we have a little guy growing up so even marginal safety issues come into play. second, i thought belts might not do so well in a wet environment. i know you can get really good belts and pulleys these days, but it seems like keeping the cheaper ones tight and not slipping when soaking wet might be a problem. i do like that fact that it's easy to change the gearing with a belt setup if a guy wants to run faster or slower.

thanks for all the ideas! keep em coming.

amp
 
   / pto pressure washer #17  
ampsucker said:
gt2, could you explain more about the gpm vs. pressue idea? i have read that professional washers are more geared to volumes of water. i'm invisioning a firehose vs. a garden hose. i think one would still need a certain minimum pressure to take off dirt even with large volume, but i can see how larger volume would be beneficial in carrying away debris and stuff. i suppose you are also limited by your source of water (less than 5-6 gpm for most garden hoses?) unless you get some type of resevoir tank set up that can temporarily supply larger volumes.

for the gear box vs. belts, i was thinking that it would be cheaper to go with belts and pulleys. but, two possible issues came to mind. first, safety. belts have to be more enclosed to keep clothing from getting sucked in. we have a little guy growing up so even marginal safety issues come into play. second, i thought belts might not do so well in a wet environment. i know you can get really good belts and pulleys these days, but it seems like keeping the cheaper ones tight and not slipping when soaking wet might be a problem. i do like that fact that it's easy to change the gearing with a belt setup if a guy wants to run faster or slower.

thanks for all the ideas! keep em coming.

amp
Yes pressure is important! It's what gets the stuff loose.
Those cheap little pressure washers you see that are getting 1000 to 1500 are using a tiny little tip that makes the pressure but does not put out any GPM (volume), so you have power but in a very small area. This makes work go very slow!
By using a larger GPM ( volume) pump you can use a larger tip which puts out more water at the same or higher pressure resulting in more area covered/ faster work time!
Many companys have used belt drives for years.
Yes you have to cover them and keep the water off!
 
   / pto pressure washer #18  
slowzuki said:
I'd hate to put hours on my tractor just to run a pressure washer.

The idea is excellent . Washer could be mounted on a small trailer if a suitable pto shaft & a set of wheels can be obtained cheaply, an old diff
could be utilised to assist in obtaining the correct speed.
Have seen the time when we were pleased to be able to use a pto driven
air compresser to pump up a tyre.
 
   / pto pressure washer #19  
You now how some things take time. Well I sort of have the PTO Pressure washer working. I picked up a new giant brand 3000PSI Pump for a good price. The good news is it outputs 3000psi (might be 3500) with a rotation of just 1026rpm. Then I found also a new pto gearbox on Ebay. I'll bet it is 50Lbs, think I paid $7 for the gearbox and $45 to ship it. Ratio is 1X1.93 if I remember correctly. 540X1.93=1042 works out fine. The belt slips a little so I am not getting the Pressure output I was hoping for, but I sure I can remedy the problem with time. I simply just mounted the pump to the top of the gearbox, and bolted the gearbox to the cart from my old PW. Once I get it working correctly I will make a more formal 3 point setup.
Maxfli
 
   / pto pressure washer
  • Thread Starter
#20  
like the idea of using an old differential for a gear box. cheap, and close to the right ratio depending on the pump. definitely close to the right ratio using the belly pto shaft (3.90 or 4.10 to one rear ends are common) and would get me a shaft speed of up to 4100 rpms.

but, using the rear pto would require almost twice those ratios or a pump designed to spin more slowly.

looks like i need what is called in the industry a "medium duty" washer capable of putting out 2000-3900 psi and about 3-4 gpm. most of those pumps seem designed for gas engines that run around 3600 rpm with direct drive. more expensive ones have belt drive. not sure why that is??

sounds like most of the money is going to be tied up in a good pump with good unloading valve.

here's the info i found on one site. didn't check their math.

***

The type of cleaning that needs to be performed will determine the style of machine that will be necessary to perform the cleaning job. The amount of cleaning to be done will help determine the overall size of the unit. After determining the type and size of the unit you need a few other factors need to be considered. Pressure washer units, are offered with different heating sources (or none at all), weights, sizes, and overall construction.

Type of cleaning:

Earth dirt, road dirt, mud, etc. - Cold pressure washers are at their best when used on earth dirt, road dirt, mud, etc... generally where grease and oil are not a factor. A cold pressure washer with the help of a soap will be able to wash construction vehicles, clean sidewalks, parking lots, swimming pools, and cleaning jobs of this type and nature. Cold pressure washers are not the ideal choice for washing grease or grime (Grime is when you have dirt that is clinging to or ingrained in a surface). A cold pressure washer may move the grease and grime around but it will not clean the surface as it should, without the use of a very aggressive cleaning chemical. Cleaning a fifth wheel on a tractor-trailer would be a good example, the heavy grease is more likely to splatter and smear than to come clean.

Medium oil, gum, grease, and grime - Hot pressure washers are best suited for cleaning large areas quickly and where the type of cleaning is typically light to medium oil, gum, grease, and grime. The heated water in a hot pressure washer aids in the loosening of the dirt, and when soap is added, the dirt will come free of the surface. These machines will clean heavy grease deposits and grime, but will leave a slight grease or oil residue. A good hot pressure washer application would be a tractor-trailer. There are large areas that need to be cleaned, but the dirt is not caked on or very thick.

Grease, oil, animal, vegetable, or, mineral, contaminates - Steam cleaners perform best when used on grease, oil, animal, vegetable, or mineral, contaminates. T his is not to say that steamers will not clean other contaminates and surfaces. Steam will clean more thoroughly than a hot pressure washer, but will take longer on large areas. Steam cleaners have the capabilities of emulsifying an oil based grease or grime using the 325ーF temperature. With the aid of soap chemicals (remember that soaps get more aggressive as temperatures increase) the job becomes faster and easier. Because of the high temperature it will also melt down such substances as honey, tar, most glues, etc... Steam cleaners also have excellent sanitizing capabilities because the ultra high temperature water will kill most germs, bacteria and viruses.

Continually changing applications - Combination units shine when the cleaning applications are continually changing and vary from one type of dirt to another. With a combination unit you have the best of all the other three units listed above in the same unit. So if you want to clean mud, leave the unit in cold-water mode, cleaning a truck, switch on the heat, and have a build up of grease and oil underneath the hood, switch the machine to steam.

NOTE: These are general guidelines presented to aid you in the selection of the pressure washer type that will work best for your needs. Please consult a professional pressure washer dealer to discuss what type of unit best suits your individual specifications. TOP of Page

Amount of Cleaning

After determining the overall type of machine (i.e. Cold Water, Hot Water, Steam Cleaner, Combination Unit) there are several other variables that determine the amount of cleaning a pressure washer unit can achieve. They are:

A. Pressure
B. Flow Rate (Volume)
C. Horsepower

The two most influential variables after the type of machine has been chosen are pressure and volume. These two factors will influence how quickly a cleaning job can be completed and how much the unit will cost.

Pressure, typically rated in PSI (Pounds per Square Inch), can seem to be the most impressive of the factors because of the large number associated with it. Pressure washers typically have pressure ranges from 750 to 5000 PSI, and that sounds really powerful. Understand, that the primary reason for the pressure is to help break the bond between the dirt and the surface being cleaned. Anything more than that is unnecessary and will just blow the dirt all over or cause damage to the surface being cleaned. Also, the higher pressure through the nozzle will cause the spray to atomize and become less effective for cleaning.

Volume, rated in GPM (Gallons Per Minute) on the other hand is what carries or flushes the dirt away. How fast dirt can be removed will be more influenced by the volume than by the pressure once the bond between the dirt and surface has been broken. Pressure washers appear to consume a lot of water, but this is not the case at all. The average pressure washer uses approximately three to four gallons of water per minute, whereas, the average garden hose puts out somewhere between six and eight gallons of water per minute. Using a pressure washer to clean is typically much faster and also helps save water.

The Horsepower of a unit will determine a number of different factors. The maximum pressure and volume, the voltage it can or cannot run on (i.e. 115V, 220V, etc...) and the amperage that it will draw. Typically the more horsepower a machine has will allow for higher pressures or volumes or a combination of both.

The pressure, volume, horsepower relationship holds true for cold and hot pressure washers, but not for steam cleaners. Steam cleaners typically are very low pressure and attain their cleaning power by using the vapor expansion of 325ーF superheated water. Typically most steam cleaner horsepower ranges are from 1HP to 2HP. The unit's horsepower requirement will be determined directly by the volume and pressure.

The simplest formula is:

Electric Motor Horsepower = (PSI X GPM)/1460
Gasoline Engine Horsepower = 1.5 X (PSI X GPM)/1460 = 1.5 X Electric Brake HP

Note: This formula is the only true way to measure and compare different units i.e. two cold pressure washers or two hot pressure washers. However, it is not useful when comparing a cold pressure washer to a hot pressure washer or steam cleaner, since now there is the addition of a water heating system and in the case of a steam cleaner, the cleaning type is different.

A good example of the pressure volume relationship is to start with a 2HP motor. The motor is capable of producing 1400PSI at 2.1 GPM or 1000PSI at 3.0 GPM. With a standard pressure washer nozzle, the 3 GPM flow will have a greater surface impact than will the 2.1 GPM. The horsepower rating of the unit will be a limiting factor in the amount of work that a pressure washer can accomplish
 
 
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