Rattle in PTO

[barbqranch]

Hi Bill,

You said you could lift the back of the tractor off the ground with the engine hoist. Perhaps if you lifted (maybe not off the ground, but some upward pressure) and then tapped the cover with a BFH, the shock might release it. Another idea would be to heat it a little and then hit it with the upward pressure. Or even tap the joint with a cold chisel like JC suggested.

Just make sure that if it pops off with the upward pressure, nothing hurts you.

 

[Jerry/MT]

jerry,

your statement is true, but it does not apply to 1900 as it does have an independent pto (hydraulically activated) option. they have transmission driven pto or live, double clutch option. what Bill said it quite indicative representative of orc operation.

jc

So it has an internal ORC?

 

[Jerry/MT]

Well it definatly has an orc. With the tractor shut off I engaged the pto. I can turn the pto shaft one way but not the other.
I started dissasembly tonight. The seat came off without any problems. I disconected the hyd lines for the loader, I removed all the bolts for the lift cover. I tried fo 1/2hr to get the lift cover off with no luck. Some one had had the lift cover off before and used some type of glue or sealer that I can't break loose. I even hooked the engine hoist to it and tried lifting it off. I just lifted the rear tires off the ground. I checked 3 times to make sure I had all the bolts out. So now I am on hold untill I can figure this out.
Bill

is there anything internal that must be loosened via an access cover to release the lift cover?

 

[JC-jetro]

So it has an internal ORC?

I have to correct my statement "it does not have a hydraulically activated pto". I forgot to add "not", in that vintage of ford tractor they all have internal orc when required. Mine has the same and it is clearly shown on the part breakdown. Bill's tractor has dual clutch , the pto clutch shaft has nothing to do with transmission mechanism and no chance action of rotary cutter momentum to move the tractor forward.

JC,

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I got it apart. I used a portapower going from the drawbar to where the top link attaches. :thumbsup: What I found was a gear that is chattering not a bearing. The shaft and gear came out pretty east after removing the retainer and driving out the expansion plug. As you can see the gear is is chewed up on one side of the tooth only. I don't know what caused this. I looked on Messicks and the gear is $306.00.:thumbdown: I am thinking about just turning the gear arround so it would be driving against the smoth side. The gear that this gear drives is in perfect shape. I am wondering if vibratin from the flail mower or brush hog may have caused this.
Bill

 

[Jerry/MT]

I got it apart. I used a portapower going from the drawbar to where the top link attaches. :thumbsup: What I found was a gear that is chattering not a bearing. The shaft and gear came out pretty east after removing the retainer and driving out the expansion plug. As you can see the gear is is chewed up on one side of the tooth only. I don't know what caused this. I looked on Messicks and the gear is $306.00.:thumbdown: I am thinking about just turning the gear arround so it would be driving against the smoth side. The gear that this gear drives is in perfect shape. I am wondering if vibratin from the flail mower or brush hog may have caused this.
Bill

Some of those gear teeth look damaged along the full length of the tooth. I don't see how turning the gear around will help.
I wonder if they was a screw up when thy hardened the teeth (they may not have hardened all the teeth )because all the teeth are subject to the same load when the teeth are engaged but not all the teeth are damaged. If it were me, I'd bite the bullet and replace the gear. If it fails, you'll be replacing more than one gear!

 

[Jerry/MT]

I have to correct my statement "it does not have a hydraulically activated pto". I forgot to add "not", in that vintage of ford tractor they all have internal orc when required. Mine has the same and it is clearly shown on the part breakdown. Bill's tractor has dual clutch , the pto clutch shaft has nothing to do with transmission mechanism and no chance action of rotary cutter momentum to move the tractor forward.

JC,

JC,
I looked at the parts drawing and i think what you are calling a orc is really a hand operated clutch that engages the pto on the 1900. That implies to me that it's an independent pto that is just not hydraulically actuated like the bigger machines have. Is this correct? I'm just trying to understand how this system works. I can't tell from the drawing what kind of clutch mechanism it has. Is it a Spragg type clutch that only allows torque to be transmitted in one direction of rotation and not the other?

 

[JC-jetro]

JC,
I looked at the parts drawing and i think what you are calling a orc is really a hand operated clutch that engages the pto on the 1900. That implies to me that it's an independent pto that is just not hydraulically actuated like the bigger machines have. Is this correct? I'm just trying to understand how this system works. I can't tell from the drawing what kind of clutch mechanism it has. Is it a Spragg type clutch that only allows torque to be transmitted in one direction of rotation and not the other?

jerry,

sliding gear and coupling is what you have seen in the diagrams that is hand operated by sliding a fork in an out. On mine I do have an ORC (internal) and sliding gear coupler to activates it. On John Deere they call some of the mechanical operated pto with double clutch "independent" . the difference is the foot pedal is not two stage and separate hand clutch activates the pto. you can check their 5000 series that have that configuration. Pretty much the rest call independent when the main clutch is single. There are two input shafts, inner and outer. the pto shaft is directly splined to the crankshaft so any time engine is on pto is turning. The coupling of this shaft is done by a set of hydraulically activate wet clutch pack. the actuation is done either by a switch to open up a solenoid to provide hyd pressure or by a mechanical arm. the mechanical arm only opens a hyd valve. It is obvious in "independent PTO" a sliding gear would have issue as you can press the clutch all the way and the internal pto shaft keeps on turning.

jc,

 

[JC-jetro]

I got it apart. I used a portapower going from the drawbar to where the top link attaches. :thumbsup: What I found was a gear that is chattering not a bearing. The shaft and gear came out pretty east after removing the retainer and driving out the expansion plug. As you can see the gear is is chewed up on one side of the tooth only. I don't know what caused this. I looked on Messicks and the gear is $306.00.:thumbdown: I am thinking about just turning the gear arround so it would be driving against the smoth side. The gear that this gear drives is in perfect shape. I am wondering if vibratin from the flail mower or brush hog may have caused this.
Bill

Bill,
did you check with Wengers of pa, I think the gear in question is pto counter shaft. They have one in stock for $56, although they list out 1910 instead of 1900. you might give them a call also. If that is what you want then it beats the heck out of NH price. If I did not have a better option I would turn the gear around like you suggested and lock it in place and put a threaded cover over the pto. It always turns but if you have a cover on it would not be very dangerous. Obviously you'll hook implement always with the engine off. Check the link below to see if that is what you need. what is NH part # you're looking for?

JC,




Ford, 1910, PTO, Sub-Component, GEAR - PTO COUNTERSHAFT, SBA322320670 at Wengers Of Myerstown

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Today I took a closer look at the gear and it apears to have some hair line cracks in it. I called Messicks and ordered a new one. $330. to the door I hate buying used parts like gears. You never know how hard they were used. I should have the gear friday so I can have it back togethr this weekend.
Bill